Now that he's retired is it time to evaluate his legacy as a fighter? I think it is. Like him or not Andre Ward was a great fighter. Personally, I was never a fan. He bored me in the ring and I always thought he was this arrogant and smug guy. He was a diva, he could be inactive. He was never boisterous and obnoxious, but he came across as this conceited and arrogant little douchebag. That said, he was a talented fighter with some big time fights. A former Olympic champion at 178 pounds, Ward began his pro career at 168 pounds. He was sneaky good, he was a respected fighter all throughout his career, even as an unproven professional, but he never got the DLH treatment. He wasn't crowned before he did anything like DLH. Which makes me appreciate his success more. He burst on the scene during the super 6 tournament. He upset the tourney favorite in the first fight beating seasoned pro Mikkel Kessler, a very good fighter with a strong reputation as a true professional fighter. And the expectation was that Kessler would be just much for Ward. Or in other words that Kessler was just too skilled and Ward would be out of his depth. What happened was Ward established himself as a top flight fighter who beat Kessler. Ward breezed through other super 6 fighters that were supposed to inevitably get worked over by Kessler. Some solid names there like Bika, Abraham and Green. Then he fought Carl Froch in the final. Who was an overachieving, grueling, war of attrition type of fighter. Froch was never able to get on track because he just couldn't hit Ward. Ward cleaned out the 168 pound division with ease. Were we surprised? Well after what he did to Kessler, not really. But you got to give him the props. Then he moved up to 175 pounds and beat a solid and underrated contender named Sullivan Barrera. Before his final two fights that will forever define his career. No matter the impressiveness of the super 6 victory the Sergey Kovalev fights will ultimately be the lasting image and legacy of Andre Ward. Sergey Kovalev has his faults as a fighter, namely his stamina problems, somewhat vulnerable chin and the lack of diversity in his punch arsenal. But his jab, timing and power make him an absolute nightmare for basically an LHW in history for the first 6 rounds. If Kessler was a step up for Ward from his early career toils then Kovalev was even a step up from the super 6 contestants. Sergey Kovalev was no joke and everybody knew it, including Ward so props given to him for taking that fight. I thought Kovalev won the first fight and so did the vast majority of us. Ward was given the decision, but the in the eyes of the masses Kovalev had won that fight. Regardless, neither fighter really did enough to make it conclusive, but you have to look far and wide to give Ward 7 of those rounds. Does the first Kovalev fight tarnish Ward's legacy? Not at all, if anything it enhances it. Ward was shocked by the power and timing of Kovalev in the early rounds, but showed great response to adversity by winning most of the later rounds. And no he did not deserve every ****ing round on every judges card after the 6th, but I digress. Ward showed tremendous versatility in those later rounds by showing impressive physical strength, stamina and determination. Not to mention he survived the monster of Kovalev who was blowing everybody to smithereens early in fights. In the rematch Ward came into the fight knowing Sergey Kovalev's kryptonite as he had exposed his greatest weakness. Kovalev is a great fighter, but he is a 7 or 8 round fighter. He just doesn't have the stamina to survive a war of attrition. And Ward was the only guy with the defense and skills to force Kovalev into an attrition type fight. Ward had great defense in the rematch and the fight was close on the cards with Kovalev relentlessly jabbing his way to points. I had Kovalev ahead on my cards. But Ward was avoiding that big right hand and he was making Kovalev tire. By the 6th or 7th round Kovalev was starting to really tire and exhaust his reserves. While Ward was just gearing up for the "fight" part of the fight. He ended up landing the best punch of his career late in the 8th round. A massive, short overhand right that really rocked Kovalev. If Ward had been a solid puncher there is no way Kovalev doesn't go down. But a great finisher has a plan when his opponent takes his best hayemaker, he follows up and goes in for the finish. And that's what Ward did. I thought the stoppage was premature given the class of Kovalev. A great fighter deserves to go out on his shield in his legacy fight. And I thought the punches were a tad low. That said, given Ward's superior conditioning, strength and toughness I don't think that Kovalev was going to mount much of an offensive in rounds 9 through 12. I see Ward sweeping the later rounds or maybe possibly scoring a clean legitimate KO late. Did the stoppage leave a bad taste in everybody's mouth? Of course it, but given the spirit and direction of the fight, Kovalev had run out of gas and was fading bad. I don't see much of a chance for him to win that fight had it continued. Andre Ward is an underrated fighter in terms of what he actually did in the ring. He consistently fought the best of the best at their best. And while he only really fought 1 truly great fighter that's more than most have done. And his resume is filled with top level and very good fighters.
Ward was a very good fighter let's not beat about the bush. He used ringcraft and rythmn breaking, spoiling tactics to make up for his lack of greatness in any one area. His results can't be denied. But he was also boring, a diva, and the Kovalev fights left a bad taste in my mouth. I'm not sorry to see him go.
That's a good post with alot of good points. His achievements are undeniable. I watched all of his fights and throughout his career I couldn't help but agree with his fans and the pundits that lauded him so much. Although, I was always bored by his fights, found him dull and bland outside the ring and now he's gone haven't really noticed his gone and don't miss him at all. It feels like he was gone before he really got going. He's only 32. I think that's the problem alot of people have with him, he's so easily forgotten, and that's going to influence his legacy.
Maybe. I felt that Kovalev won the first handily and was winning the second even more clearly until the stoppage. On the other hand Ward dealt with Barrera with ease, and Barrera is nobody's mug. Give it a couple of years and let's see how he ages in retrospect.
good analysis a good read i like it when posters are anylitical about good points or bad points about fighters they like or do not like 90% of posts on esb are full of bias with no objectivness / i like reading posts like yours that lay out there reasoning .
I was heavily invested in these fights. More so than any recent fights by far. You can check my post history for proof. Sergey Kovalev was my favorite fighter still operating at or close to peak form during that time. I loved watching him fight because of the skill and the power and the timing. You knew what you were going to get. He came in there to hurt you, but he wasn't a dumb brute either with his style. There was a real sophistication to his craft. And Ward was somebody I couldn't stand, though now that he's gone and I no longer have to watch him fight or listen to his smug comments I can appreciate him and what he accomplished. But these fights were difficult for me to swallow big time. I was emotionally invested in them. After the first fight I was about as down on boxing as I can remember. I thought Kovalev won. It wasn't a flat out robbery, but it straddled the line between dubious decision and robbery. It was teetering on that point. The 2nd fight wasn't as hard to swallow even though there was a controversial stoppage. The blows were low and the stoppage was premature, but Kovalev had gassed. He was going to lose that fight. It just depended on what round or eventually on the cards. He was beaten and that's how I dealt with it. The first fight was really hard to take.
been there done that mine was mcguigan losing to cruz i too wanted ward to lose to kovalev and have never been a fan of ward but like yourself i dont allow my dislike of a fighters style or personality to obscure me to the talent i see with my own eyes and what they bring to the ring. i dont mind posters posting **** about fighters as long as they back up there words with there reasoning and analysis behind it .
I was intensely invested in the Kovalev-Ward bouts, too, albeit in a way nuanced from yours. These were/are two of my very favorite modern fighters, guys who I believed were among a small handful of the most truly credible combatants currently active in the sport, locking horns in a dream battle for P4P supremacy -- a conflicting scenario, for sure, but not without a sense of vicarious pride at the prospect of two of my 'dogs' facing off to determine pure (as opposed to economic) kingship of the sport. I wish their fights had been settled without controversy, but how many big, hotly anticipated fights between closely matched men unfold without controversy these days? In the age of social media, there's almost always going to be griping, undermining and stripping away of due credit from both principles, however reasonable the official outcome of a closely fought contest. After their fights, these guys were treated almost like chopped liver by fans. A pity, because I believed that they had enhanced each other and that each man's stock should have risen in the eyes of the fanbase. Who ever was truly on par with Ward for more than a couple rounds prior to Kovalev, much less for 19 rounds and arguably besting him in their first bout? Ward, meanwhile, picked himself off the canvas, gradually took the fight to the most destructive (and quite arguably the most technically robust) puncher in the sport, and managed to outlast him over the course of two bouts. I've said it before, and I suppose nobody will agree, but, with Ward absent, Kovalev is my P4P #1 right now until I see clear evidence to the contrary. I'll take the stress he gave Ward over these other guys' best wins any day of the week, and that's on top of the substance he'd already put on his CV prior to the showdowns with SOG.
He had skills few could match from recent era's and his talent level and execution of said talents was fascinating to watch imo. Had it all but stopping power but you can get by without it in this game thats chess not checkers. His Roberto Duran type terrorization / deconstruction of Kessler was masterful and is unjustly criticized. If any fight of his is worth hating on its Allen Green , which was the ugliest of his career. He wasn't to everyone's liking and its understandable , but i don' t think you can deny his talents , finesse and craft... Good thread Tinman.
I agree with this post whole heartedly. It used to be that two great fighters in their prime fighting each other to close contests enhanced both men's reputations, but that seemed to change within the last 10 years or so. It's now become an avoid a disputed contest at all costs now. Which is ridiculous. My only disagreement here is that Kovalev is #1 p4p in the absence of Ward. I'd agree with you completely if Kovalev wasn't turning 35 in a few days and hadn't been through 2 tough fights with Ward. Clearly he's more seasoned, tested and accomplished than Loma and Crawford, but at 35 and some tough fights I don't think he's ever going to be the same anymore.