My thoughts on the career of JMM

Obviosuly boxing is a subjective sport so I watched all of his controversially scored fights and made my own judgement on who should have won them.

First off I think it is impossible to rate JMM accurately unless you dig out some of his old fights. As a featherweight this man was truly great. Here's my rbr of the norwood, john and pac 1 fights.

M-N

1: 10-9 - cagey first round, norwood stalking with his slippery stance and marquez jabbing off the back foot later in the round M gets a couple of decent combos in.
2: 8-10 - beautiful counter left by norwood dropping M early on. norwood lands some good lefts later in the round also.
3: 10-9 - norwood fighting very negative this round and still being caught with clean shots by M.
4: 10-9 - marquez again chasing N round the ring and still landing some good combos on him. N lands a flashy 1-2 but aside from that did nothing of note.
5: 10-9 - again N being very negative, lands a good combo early on but then for the rest of the round retreats and still gets tagged regularly by M.
6: 10-9 - another frustrating round, norwood thinking he can win by landing one clean shot and avoiding everything marquez throws at him, not realising that M's shots are still getting through.
7: 9-10 - norwood alnded some cracking counters this round whilst slipping the majority of M's punches.
8: 10-9 - good round by marquez, landing his right hand consistently throughout the round, denied a clear kd.
9: 10-8 - good round by marquez again, landing good combos and dropping norwood just before the bell.
10: 10-9 - marquez again dictating the action, norwood fighting a very defensive fight but still being caught by marquez.
11: 9-10 - norwood lands some good shots on marquez and slips out of the way of most of the return fire.
12: 10-9 - very scruffy round, norwood lands some eye catching lefts but for the most part is on the back foot being tagged as he tries slipping.

116-110

Pac-Marquez 1

1: 10-6 - we all know the story here, completely one sided round
2: 10-9 - another rough round for marquez as pac found success with his left. jmm fired back with a couple of combos but for the most part was on the back foot under attacke
3: 9-10 - good round for marquez who was able to stand his ground and time pacman on the way in to good effect.
4: 9-10 - really close roung, pac started well, jmm adjusted well and finished slightly stronger rocking pac with a good right hand just before the bell.
5: 9-10 - great round with marquez landed some huge solid shots that pac walked right onto
6: 9-10 - very good marquez round, by this point he has pac completely sussed so much so that pac looked scared to throw towards tyhe end of the round for fear he'd be countered.
7: 10-9 - big improvement by pac who picked his shots much better using spped and range to pick marquez off.
8: 10-9 - a good display of speed and range by pacman here as he picks his shots brilliantly to win another round.
9: 9-10 - very close round, pac's speed gives him a good finish as he reverts back to pot shotting but the first 2 minutes were controlled by marquez's timing and good body work.
10: 10-9 - pac uses the 1-2 to great effect and even tho marquez has some good moments it isn't enough to negate pac's quick accurate work.
11: 9-10 - very good round with the two exchanging big shots but marquez coming out on top.
12: 9-10 - good finish by marquez who times pac with big strong combos in a fantastic finish to a fantastic fight.

113-112

footnote, it's interesting to note that using the old scoring system marquez wins 7 rounds to 5, but the 3 knockdowns have ultimately won it for pac on my cards.



M-J

1: 10-9 - M landing all the clean shots, J is very ineffective
2: 10-9 - more of the same great right hand by M at the start snaps J's head back.
3: 9-10 - decent round by M, holding the centre and landing good combos. J did land a good shot about a minute in and had a good last half minute this round the better shots came form J.
4: 10-9 - another good effort by John, but again the cleaner work is coming from M, J fought well on the back foot but M pressured well at times with good body work.
5: 10-9 - brilliant display by marquez so far, he's consistently coming out on top of all the exchanges, forcing john to back away, miss, come in and get beaten to the punch.
6: 9-10 - better round by John who timed marquez well and was able to beat him to the punch and get out of range afterwards.
7: 10-9 - good work by marquez here, he is more intelligent with his work and shows good aggression backing john up. john is not able to time marquez and it makes me think juan took round 5 off.
8: 10-9 - good work by both fighters here, but more of it again coming from marquez, his combination punching is very good and john can't handle it too well.
9: 10-9 - good exchanges in this round, John seems content with the work he's doing but he's constantly being beaten to the punch and is coming out second best in the majority of exchanges
10: 9-9 - M deducted a point for hitting marquez with a body shot on the belt and got caught by a flush combo with about 30 seconds left, that aside he controlled the round with a superior display of combo throwing and counter punching
11: 8-10 - M deducted another point for a body shot on the belt. J's defence was quite solid in this round and he landed some very good shots on a clearly frustrated M who looked quite sloppy
12: 9-10 - M starts really strong in this round but after about the minute mark John starts to out box him to a good finish for the final round.

114-112

The only man to beat him at featherweight by my cards was pacman and that is as a result of the 3 knockdowns.

From 96-2006 this man was a top 10 featherweight scoring victories over:

julio gervacio
agapito sanchez
alfred kotey
juan cabrera
freddie norwood
daniel jimenez
robbie pedan
manuel medina
derrick gainer
orlando salido
victor polo
chris john

in his loss to pac he won 7 of the rounds and bar that trio of knockdowns he'd have beaten him as well.

I think at this weight jmm had what it takes to beat hamed, mab and morales and it's a crying shame the fights never came off as marquez had the ability and possible opponents to be a true great at feather weight.

After his move up he fought a good trio of opponents: mab, juarez and pacman. I had him beating mab and losing the pacman fight by 1 point as a reult of the knockdown

mab-jmm
1: 10-9 -
2: 10-9 -
3: 9-10 -
4: 9-10 -
5: 9-10 -
6: 9-10 -
7: 8-10 -
8: 10-9 -
9: 9-10 -
10: 9-10 -
11: 9-10 -
12: 10-9 -

111-116 * with the kd in the 7th it would be 113-114


pac-marquez 2

1: 9-10 - good start by marquez contolling behing his jab and keeping pac at bay with good counter shots, pac had brief success in the last minute but not enough to edge it.
2: 10-9 - good start to the round by pac and for the most part he seemed in control until a huge finish by jmm in the last 10 seconds, but still 10 seconds don't win a round.
3: 10-8 - even round until the knockdown and a big finish by pac
4: 10-9 - not much in this round but i feel pac landed more consistently
5: 9-10 - much better timing and ring generalship by marquez this round
6: 9-10 - close round but I think marquez won it with good timing and efective punching
7: 10-9 - best round of the night so far with plenty of echanges but i think pac got the best of it landing the better shots
8: 9-10 - good finish by pac but marquez was in control for the vast majority of the round forcing pac on the back foot.
9: 10-9 - good round by pac rwally tasking it to marquez this round with a good display of aggression.
10: 10-9 - razor close round could go either way, pac's left seemed to be landing too regularly this round and it was causing jmm problems so i gave him the edge
11: 9-10 - another razor close round with marquez getting the dge this time as I thought his shots were better timed, better placed and had more effect
12: 9-10 - very good final round, marquez stood his ground a bit better and landed some good shots on pac.

115-114

Then at lightweight he defied the odds to defeat casamayor, diaz (x2) and katsidis.

By my reckoning he has beaten 18 men who have been ranked in the top 10 at one time or another; two of those, john and salido, are currently top 3 featherweights.

The only man to conclusively beat him in my books is floyd mayweather in what was a step to far and an apparent ceiling on his legacy. however with this upcoming fight he has a chance, imo, to surpass chavez, sanchez and morales and to gain recognition as the greatest mexican of all time. If he does somehow beat marquez he'll have been the premiere fighter in an amazing 4 divisions.

I'm not really a fan of marquez I just decided to look into some of his more controversial fights and the more I saw the more I appreciated. In his era I think the only man who could beat him between feather and lightweight is pacman and only then with the aid of knockdowns.

It's gonna go down as a shame he didn't get to pit his skills against hamed, mab and morales as I thinm he'd have beaten all 3 and sealed his legacy already rather than still at the age of 36 fighting for recognition that his talents merit.

I know this has been a long post but I'd advise people to watch the fights that jmm failed to win and after watching all 4 it is very difficult to announce him the loser. He was flat out robbed by norwood and I believe the John fight was a robbery. There is room to say he could have been called a winner agianst pac both times but I scored him a 1 point loser on both occasions and had he been able to stay on his feet for all 24 rounds I think he'd come out the superior man.

How do you view this man? should he be being discussed alongside the great mexicans I've mentioned? or is he just one of boxing's good but not great fighters?

 

yes what he achieved at Lightweight is definitely evening it out a bit. I think at feather only pac was able to beat him and that's because pac scored 3 kd's. i think the likes of mab, em and hamed would have lost decisions to marquez and then he'd be much better appreciated.

to be fighting for a legacy at his age is a shame and i hope he can overcome the odds and defeat pacman, i just don't see it happening.

 

agree 100%

 

definitely people forget how much of an underdog he was vs diaz in the first fight "he struggled against casa and diaz is just too big for him" etc. and it's worth reminding people how good a fight that actually was!