My thoughts on Toney-Rahman II

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by FROST, Jul 18, 2008.


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  1. Sinew

    Sinew The Assassin Full Member

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    This ^ .
     
    Sinew, Jul 18, 2008
    Sinew, Jul 18, 2008
    #16
  2. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    Yeah well the cut was caused by a headbutt, not a punch. Of course they don't want Rahman to fight with an unfair disadvantage.

    As others said, rules are rules. The fight was stopped on something caused by an accidental headbutt, and regardless of what Rahman said/intended, when the doctor stops the fight because of the consequence of an accidental headbutt, it's a no contest after 3 rounds.
     
    ChrisPontius, Jul 18, 2008
    ChrisPontius, Jul 18, 2008
    #17
  3. Heavyrighthand

    Heavyrighthand Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I read that the eliminator thing has TOS in there, not Rahman. BUt I also think that Toney deserves a slot in there much more than TOS.

    Yes, put Toney in this tournament thing. THis win last night makes him even more worthy to fight in this eliminator. :good
     
    Heavyrighthand, Jul 18, 2008
    Heavyrighthand, Jul 18, 2008
    #18
  4. Heavyrighthand

    Heavyrighthand Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I agree with what you said, if the corner did say Its to the bone, and Rock said, But I can't see!

    If this was what was indeed said, there is no question, he QUIT. Period.
     
    Heavyrighthand, Jul 18, 2008
    Heavyrighthand, Jul 18, 2008
    #19
  5. FROST

    FROST Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Thanks for your thoughtful post, I appreciate.

    If Rahman thought he was gonna get the no-contest but got the TKO instead, well, it's his bad. He has to blame himself for that. Just as you wrote, he would have continued if he knew that he'd not get the no-contest 'decision' that he wanted - well a fighter is either able to continue fighting or he isn't, regardless of the outcome, there are no in-betweens.
    A doctors stoppage does not exist. A doctor can't stop a fight, he can only advise the ref to stop it. In this case the doc didn't do his job correctly: either Rahmans blurred vision was due to the blood emerging from the cut, which got closed by Rahmans corner - the doc should have let the fight continue then, at least for another round, to see if the cut opens again - or the blurred vision was due to another reason, which would mean a TKO stoppage against Rahman anyway. It's true that according to the rules an injury caused from an accidental headbutt leads to a no-contest when the injured fighter can't go on before the 4th round is over. After the fight was stopped, it was decided by the ref and judges that it should be a no-contest, this rule being applied. But the commissioners decided to overrule this no-contest before the announcement was even made, and they do have the right to do so. They did it because they realized that Rahman was able to continue and that the doc (and the ref) were wrong. That's not how decisions should be taken, and it's always a controversial procedure, but in this case the commissioners were right. I would actually have preferred that they had decided that the fight should go on, and I think Toney would have preferred that too. If Rahman wouldn't have accepted that then, fully knowing that he'd lose by TKO if he wouldn't continue, then there would have been no controversy. In the end the decison to give Toney the TKO win is right, even if it leaves a bad aftertaste. But a no-contest would have been more controversial imo.

    As for strictly applied rules, the accidental head-butt wasn't even called by the ref, like it should have been. So theoretically there was no head-butt at all, and therefore also no cut caused by an accidental head-butt.

    This fight also shows why there should always be experienced referees and docs at big fights like this.
     
    FROST, Jul 18, 2008
    FROST, Jul 18, 2008
    #20
  6. Zakman

    Zakman ESB's Chinchecker Full Member

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    Exactly.:yep
     
    Zakman, Jul 18, 2008
    Zakman, Jul 18, 2008
    #21
  7. jecxbox

    jecxbox St. Brett Full Member

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    Give me a break dude, No it shouldn't have. The fact is that the DOC was not going to stop the fight because of that cut, and Rahman bitched about that cut (regardless that it was a headbutt) he DIDN'T want to continue! Why the **** should it be a no contest if the DOC was NOT going to stop the fight, He didn't stop the fight and Rahman did NOT want to keep fighting.

    DOC - IT IS OK CONTINUE THE FIGHT
    RAHMAN - I CAN'T CONTINUE, I CAN'T SEE (all the meanwhile there was no blood coming out of his eye!!!)


    Therefore DOC says its fine, RAHMAN says He can't continue = TKO for TONEY

    Rahman was simply trying to MANIPULATE the rules to save his career from a humiliating defeat and the end of status as a serious contender.

    Because the truth is IT DOESN'T matter if Rahman thinks he CAN'T continue! If the DOC says he CAN continue and Rahman continues to say he can't then its a TKO loss for him!


    End of ****ing story.

    **** the rules that Rahman was merely trying to MANIPULATE. He deserved to ****ing lose that was an EXTREMELY ***** ass move by him.

    "Put your balls on and fight!"
     
    jecxbox, Jul 18, 2008
    jecxbox, Jul 18, 2008
    #22
  8. Guido

    Guido ESB Addict Full Member

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    Except when the doctor and referee both determine that a fighter can continue. If he's unwilling to fight after the Doc and Referee both tell him to continue, it's considered a retirement and hence a TKO victory.

    He quit. Seems like a pretty simple situation to me.
     
    Guido, Jul 18, 2008
    Guido, Jul 18, 2008
    #23
  9. Ring Master

    Ring Master The Originator Full Member

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    But the doc did not stop it on the cut, he stopped b/c Rock said he couldn't see.
     
    Ring Master, Jul 18, 2008
    Ring Master, Jul 18, 2008
    #24
  10. El Borracho

    El Borracho Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Good analysis Frost. Your reasoning is very sound. If the highlighted section of your response is true, and it's within the rules for the commission to take such action; no one can complain about the outcome. :good
     
    El Borracho, Jul 18, 2008
    El Borracho, Jul 18, 2008
    #25
  11. diehard

    diehard Active Member Full Member

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    Why not give Rock 5 minutes to recover? That way, us fans don't get robbed of a good fight. ****, give him 10 minutes! Like they do with a low blow or after the bell. Rock knows about "after the bell" with David Tua.
     
    diehard, Jul 18, 2008
    diehard, Jul 18, 2008
    #26
  12. mrbassie

    mrbassie Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Rahman was leading on all the scorecards so he really won. Toney laced him and he cut him with his hair. The racist doctor stopped the fight because Toney was getting ko'd next round. He sat down on his stool funny. Rahman ko1 any heavyweight in history.
     
    mrbassie, Jul 20, 2008
    mrbassie, Jul 20, 2008
    #27
  13. fidds

    fidds Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Well i agree with the decsion rahman wanted out and was getting tagged in round 3 he wanted out and he got it :yep
     
    fidds, Jul 20, 2008
    fidds, Jul 20, 2008
    #28
  14. vargasfan1985

    vargasfan1985 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    it will get over turned. it may take a while but it will
     
    vargasfan1985, Jul 20, 2008
    vargasfan1985, Jul 20, 2008
    #29
  15. Bazooka

    Bazooka Pimp C Wants 2 Be Me Full Member

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    if Toney didnt show us much as you say, then how did he prove that he isnt shot as you say?
     
    Bazooka, Jul 20, 2008
    Bazooka, Jul 20, 2008
    #30
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