My tiered all time heavyweight ratings

I can't answer the question you address at Mendoza on his behalf, but it was me that listed Tunney's HW record as 18-0, so just to explain the logic, that's 18 fights Tunney had where either he OR his opponent weighed over 180lbs. To my mind, that's a HW contest (reason for the 5lbs grace from LHW, is that 2 x LHWs weighing 176-179lbs in a non title fight, seems better allocated as a LHW fight to me).

According to my notes, there was 1 Greb fight, won by Tunney, staged at HW by my criteria.

So, of the 5 Tunney vs Greb fights, I factor them into my all time rankings as follows:

P4P = all 5
@ LHW = the 4 fights when neither weighed over 180lbs
@ HW = the 1 fight where Tunney weighed in excess of 180lbs.

 

Yeah, my criteria isn't foolproof. It just made sense to me to determine which weight division the fight was being contested in, which is established by the heavier fighter.

So, I credit Tunney's win over Greb, where Tunney weighed over 180lbs, at HW, because by the weight categories of the day it was contested at HW, even through Greb weighed under the LHW limit. For the other 4 contests, the weight of the heavier man qualified them as LHW contests, so that's what I consider them as.

As I alluded to in a previous post on this thread, establishing a clear criteria & applying it consistently, will have a material impact on your rankings.

 

Thanks Greg, I really appreciate your answer.

My question might’ve sounded naive but I wanted to frame the question so as to invite a complete answer - which you have given me.

I had my own assumptions as to the criteria that might be applied - including Tunney’s own weight being sufficient in itself to put a contest into the HW bracket.

I didn’t want to float such assumptions and make it more complicated - thereby by leaving a clean slate for your answer. I guess blanket criteria can never be fail safe but yours sounds as good as anyone might/could apply.

Tunney at HW vs a Greb at LH or even SMW
is problematic as far as the perception of Gene’s HW resume goes - but it has to go somewhere otherwise it resides in no man’s land.

It’s certainly clear cut for allocation to Greb’s own HW resume and, in terms of the literal weights of the combatants, it is comparable to the earlier era’s clash between Burns and Johnson which was deemed a HW clash with Burns obviously being the Champion of the division - his literal weight notwithstanding.

But as you’ve already said, to properly compare notes, everyone working with the same, clearly understood criteria is a must.

 

No problem mate. I think we are on the same page.

Tunneys win over Greb where he weighed over 180lbs has to contribute to his HW resume imo, because it was a bout staged at HW.

The fact that Greb, brilliant as he was even past prime, was a natural MW weighing well inside LHW limit, factors in to how highly I rate it as a HW win, but it's still a win in a HW contest. It's the criteria that makes the most sense to me.

 

Griffin did very little of note pre-1900, "Jones had the better of the fight" LosAngles Herald Dec.1898. Both the Joe Kennedy fights were considered fair draws.
Hank maybe drew with the novice Frank Childs who was soon to be hammered by Dan Creedon and Joe Choynski, then lost to the novice Jeffries. After that, the Jones fight which at best was a draw.
Without doubt his best performances were the three Johnson fights, by all accounts the last two(draws) were pretty even. But this was not the Johnson of later years, he was losing to Klondike and the veteran Choynski, just learning his trade. Meanwhile, Hank, at the top of his game, was crushed by Ed Martin(no shame there) and the bang average, Fred Russell. Sorry, Mendoza, cant agree at all on Hank.

 

It is reasonable to use the criteria of ~ 180 + as HW: if we are considering the best HWs of each era.
Of course this is very different from matching people across eras, when 180's would be a small CW---> but for decades due to day before weight ins, in actuality those guys would be more like SMW.

 

@Mendoza wheres Golota?

 

lol you shouldn't let your dislike of him affect your rankings. He deserves to be in there.

 

Love the list although I’d say Layne or Baker we’re more deserving than Jones in the last spot 45-65.