My timeline of the premiere HW in the world.

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that's the thing isn't. how can one define something so astute?

for example, if you believe Johnson beat Hart, then you'd have him as the premiere HW much earlier. I personally can't find enough evidence to back up that claim however.

If you think Carnera's knockout of Sharkey is enough to usurp Schmelling(who was robbed against Sharkey by all accounts) then his place is justified, unless you believe Schmelling remains there until his loss to Baer (I was caught in two minds here)

Braddock, again was beating Baer more impressive than Schmelling knocking out Louis? by all accounts Baer was seen in a similar light to Liston during his time as champ but I could be swayed otherwise.

Douglas and Rahman both have the same claim of knocking out the universally regarded HW champion and that for me is certainly enough (there was no dispute that Tyson nor Lewis were the best going into the fight)

Moorer, if you think he got a gift v Holyfield that changes things. I haven't watched the fight for a long time and can't find my score card.


For me it comes down to quality of resume at the time, media appreciation (or that of boxing insiders) dubious results, devastating victories. I think if you beat the best, you become the best. I don't think you automatically retain that right however, you have to earn it constantly.

Out of interest who would you put above the suggestions?

I assume Johnson over Hart and Burns; Schmelling over Carnera and Braddock; Holyfield over Douglas and agin over Moorer; Lewis over Rahman? (dismising the result as a fluke?)

 

thankyou, it's been something i planned for ages and only just have enough confidence in my knowledge to attempt.

Yeah Byrd imo beat Fres, Mccline and drew with golota whilst ruiz lost to golota and toney. Brewster arguably lost to Meehan and I think Byrd kinda inherited the spot when Lewis and Vitali both retired.

Braddock is a very interesting point because it could be argued that Schmelling was the best HW in the world for a considerable period.

Vitali, yes I remember boilermaker once making an interesting point that he thought the viewpoint of the brothers will be backdated and I think I'm starting to conform: if Wlad lose to Mormeck and Vitali beats Haye, people will say it's now obviosu that Vitali was the best from 08-present and I'm not too sure I would disagree. Living in the now however, wlad is significantly more credentialled in the present HW scene IMO.

 

AHA, well spotted I meant from 1960. yes that changes things back to Ingo in 59, I'll amend. That is a mistake on my part!

 

corrected. my criteria is that of circumstances coming together to lead to a valid usurpation of the champion (being that the champ isn't the best)

ingo knocking out machen and floyd was brilliant, I meant to include that. Floyd knocking out ingo in the rubber essentially meant that whilst floyd and ingo were knocking each other out, sonny was in the background destroying ranked contenders looking invincible. This I believe led to him being seen as the best by most who followed boxing, led to him being the main line betting favourite over floyd and proving it dramatically when he knocked Floyd out in 2 minutes 6 seconds.

 

what are your thoughts on the fight? having his number; this is something that raises an interesting point. If you have the number of the HW king and noone else is beating you, surely you're the Hw king yourself?

Hart's run from choynski to burns is somewhat underrated IMO and his victories over Johnson and root underline his credentials IMO.

 

I find it hard calling him the premiere HW when he got an undeserved title shot. Once he'd flattend max in the rematch he'd legitimised his claim IMO.

 

thank you.