My top 10 Heavyweight list

I agree with Zakman's rating of Dempsey.

And I agree with his rating of Lewis to some extent.

But while I agree that a prime Holyfield would edge Lewis head-to-head, I dont necessarily agree with Holyfield rating above Lewis on an all-time list. Holyfield has major blemishes of his own on his record, namely Riddick Bowe. I can actually forgive his loss to Moorer more readily, since it was a close fight - other champions, such as Ali and Holmes, have got "wins" on such poor performances.

But Holyfield's two losses to Bowe were quite severe.

 

#3 of all time is an obsene ranking for Dempsey whatever way you slice it. When we scratch below the surface regarding his career you find that it's very much sentimental 'myth' over 'substance'.

Ali, Holmes, Lewis and Holyfield all have way more depth to their records.

 

It depends whether you are talking legacy or head to head.

Head to head 3 might well be about right.

 

Have you ever thought that if you matched the three best fighters under 200lbs from every era against the three best over 200lbs that the cruiserweights might win the series?

 

Legacy-wise, or "accomplishments", or however you guys want to describe it, I see JOE LOUIS as a clear number 1, with MUHAMMAD ALI as number 2.

But then after that it, it's a free-for-all between about 6 or 7 names, IMO.
And I'd put Dempsey in position 3.

But I base my list on a combination of things, and I dont think leagacy can be seperated from perceived head-to-head ability, nor can either criteria be seperated from subjective judgment.

Pretending that there's any objective method is silly. It's wishful-thinking, driven by the human urge to "solve the unsolvable".

 

Sharp, JT. :yep

 

From every era, perhaps yes.

From every era post-50's, not a chance.

 

You are perhaps correct that Holmes is overestimating what he had left and therefore his chances. Still, his evaluation of Tyson and judgement that Tyson slowed noticeably if you could last past the fifth or sixth is certainly interesting and valid in giving perspective on Tyson.

 

I think Audley Harrison beats them all!

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Only a joke by the way!

 

That certainly occurred to me, and it probably was quite true for some, although not all, of them. But let's say the low relative ranking of Louis was in fact due to racism, which it undoubtedly to a large extent was. Even if you were to give Louis the #1 ranking, those who saw them both clearly gave Dempsey high marks that would have merited, minimum, a #2 ranking in the pre-Ali period. My point is that the debate among boxing analysts over who was the greatest really revolved around Dempsey and Louis.

And, indeed, even into the 70s, as it became clear that Ali deserved to be considered in this debate, the debate over who was the greatest was really a THREE-WAY debate between Ali, Louis and Dempsey. It is only since he died that Dempsey has plummeted to a point where he is, imo, terribly underrated - moreso among fans, it seems, than analysts, however. It was only after I joined here that I recognized just HOW underrated Dempsey had become.

When you add in the dominance, the destructiveness, and the sociological significance of Dempsey to the analysis of observers who actually saw Dempsey, it seems pretty clear to me that Dempsey belongs in the top five.