My top 10 Heavyweights

With respect, you are well of.

If a poor person becomes a millionare he ceases to be poor.

Does this mean there are no poor people?

Journeyman can be a transient state, just as any other descriptive term can be. That doesn't mean it doesn't exsist.

 

That's right. "Goose" is not a transcient descritptive term, Peeping It.

Is it?

 

Are you speaking to me?

Regardless of your low opinion of those men who reached the absolute pinacle of their chosen profession the anaology of journeyman and poor is absolutley proper.

To be poor you muse meet certain criteria - lack of money - to be a journeyman you also have to meet certain criteria. You've laid them out not to badly above, but in your ignorance you're applying them to the wrong fighters.

By acquiring money you cease to be poor.

By meeting certain criteria you can cease to be a journeyman. By establishing yourself as better than the man who holds the heavyweight championship - and therefore the man at the absolute pinacle of your sport - you achieve this. It's obvious, really. There are other ways, but lording it over an entire division and then taking on the very best is the most straight forward way to do it.

You show a worrying disdain for boxing when you refer to Max Baer as a "clown". It astonishes me that a so called knowledgable fan would say such a thing. Even if he is as weak as you make out - he's not - he still gets in there with the very best in the business to make a fight of it. He deserves more than you give him.

Domino Rally Action Alley in affect.


Goose - cooked goose is a terrible analogy. Goose is not a changeable state, whether it's cooked or not. A journeyman can change.

 

This is nonsense. Fighters have distinct phases to their career. They can leave the journeyman phase behind by becoming champion, and even a great fighter. When Dick Tiger arrived in the US he had a journeyman's record. When he left he was the ex-middle and light heavyweight champ of the world, and an ATG. You would descirbe Tiger as a journeyman upon arriving in the states. Even you must see that he is not one when he goes.

I don't really know what you are on about here, it seems a little insane. Yes he would be a murderer. Glen Johnson was no longer a journeyman when he lifted the Light-Heavyweigh championship of the world.

What an incredible claim. Do you realise this makes Luis Ronaldo a journeyman footballer? And Dick Tiger a journeyman boxer? And Lloyd Marshall a journeyman boxer? Wow.

As far as you are concerned yes; because you are labouring under the impression that Journeyman is an irreversable state. You couldn't be more wrong if you set out to make a mistake.

 

Well done for answering my points in the last thread about Journeyman status so thoroughly.

I may be wrong, Hank, but you haven't show it.

I don't favour any stars, as much as it is in my power. Nice boundless accusation though, about par for your course.

 

Congratulations on giving up this small concession at the expense of contradicting your earlier statement.

Seriously.

Well your saying this doesn't make it so - but if I am presented with these two choices then I say there are no journeymen. The idea of labelling a former heavyweight champion as such is more ridiculous IMO. Though it's a terrible conundrum in that both selections are pretty shabby.

You keep saying this. Do you know actually know the story of Cinderella? It's about a person who is held down by enviroment only to triumph against the odds despite overwhelming odds - she reaches the very top of the tree.

As an analogy for your "Braddock as ultimate journeyman" angle, it's a pretty shocking analogy.

I think you accusing someone else of ciruclar logic may be the funniest thing i've ever read on ESB, and there are some real clowns in the lounge.

Not "special fighters" Hank. Just not "bums" and "clowns" as you keep insisting. It's ugly. And for some reason it all seems to come back to Ali for you, over and over again. Then you accuse other people of not being balanced!

If your point is "Ali's competition is better than Louis'" congrats, you win some sort of prize possibly. No-one will argue. This is the 2nd time i've said so tonight. If your argument is, "Everyone Louis fought and everyone Marciano fought was a journeyman/old/rubbish", grow up.

This is nasty - i'm certian you're no racist but please clarify this for me.

He fought the best around - you want more, take up writing.