My Top 100 of all-time

Dempsey has no place at top10 in 1890's, he was past it by late 1880's already.
Palmer was a very talented fighter, but placing him ahead of Lavigne, Walcott, Ryan, Erne, McCoy, Gans? This choice also makes Plimmer in 'mentions' very questionable too.
Peter Jackson imho hasn't really done enough in the 1890's to deserve a top10 placement.
Jeffries at #4 is too high, he should be near the end of top 10.
Griffo out of top 10, Lavigne and Ryan have more merit to be ahead of him.
Fitzsimmons at #2 is too high, near the end of top 10 suits him better, and even that only because he win a heavyweight champ title.

 

Agree with most of what you've said, but didn't Griffo (by most reports) get robbed against Lavigne (and McAuliffe for that matter)? Even if the point is contentious, a natural feather holding his own against two of the best lightweights of the decade should in and of itself merit him a spot in the top ten for the decade.

 

Lavigne had the better of the first fight with Griffo and nearly stopped him, if I'm not mistaken, as well as had the better of the 2nd fight. McAuliffe's fight by fact was a win for Jack.

 

Are you relying on certain articles from the time of their fights when you say that?

I've seen it said in a couple of places that many thought Griffo got the better of both Lavigne and McAuliffe.

I don't have any old articles on their fights, but two ready places where this is said is in Mike Casey articles:

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=5455&more=1

http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/casey/MC_YoungGriffo2.htm

 

Casey gives Fleisher's Pictorial History (very unreliable source) and boxrec as sources for one of these articles.


Newswire for 1st Lavigne-Griffo fight:

EIGHT-ROUND DRAW.

Chicago, Ill., Feb. 10.--Young Griffo and George Lavigne of Saginaw, Mich., fought an eight-round battle at the second regiment armory to-night without gore or knock-out, ending in a draw. The fight, which was expected to be a lively one, developed into a simple boxing match, ending slightly in the Michigan boy's favor, with but little hot work, and 2000 spectators were sadly disappointed. George Siler acted as referee, with "Mysterious" Billy Smith behind Lavigne and Sam Fitzpatrick seconding Griffo.


another newswire

Lavigne Bests Griffo.

Chicago, Feb. 10.--George Lavigne of Saginaw, Mich., otherwise known as the kid, proved himself more than a match tonight for Albert Griffith, or Griffo, the Australian who has been in this city for nearly a year in search of the scalps of American pugilists of his class. Lavigne nearly knocked out his man in the seventh but failed to follow it up. It was declared a draw.


Chicago Tribune's header of the article (I'm not ready to be paying for it):

GRIFFO'S CLOSE CALL.
LAVIGNE GIVES THE AUSTRALIAN HIS HANDS FULL. The Aspirant for Dixon's Scalp Shows Up Out of Condition and Nearly Loses in Consequence--Is Fought All Over the Ring in the Last Round by the Lad from Michigan--Boxing Bouts at the Gymnasium of the Chicago Athletic Association. Griffe Has His Hands Full. Griffe Is the Aggressor.

Abstract (Document Summary)
"Young" Griffe had a close call from de feat at the Lake-Front armory last night in his eight round go with George Lavigne.

 

I agree with you that Oscar is nowhere near Hearns, but I felt he beat Mosely 2nd time out by the proverbial mile. One of the worst decisions I've witnessed.

 

Newswire about the 2nd Lavigne-Griffo fight:

...
For the first few rounds Griffo had the best of it and landed some telling blows, but before the tenth round was called Lavigne braced up and from that time on he gave the Australian a lively time. In the fifteenth Griffo was obliged to turn his back on his adversary to avoid punishment. When the last round, the twentieth, was called Lavigne showed up as fresh as ever, while the Australian was evidently distressed, although he was still in good fighting trim. Some hot work was seen in this round and both men were on their feet fighting when the gong was rung.

The referee declared the bout a draw, though many good judges considered that Lavigne was entitled to the decision.

 

One more report about 2nd fight.

DECLARED A DRAW.
---
Result of the Fight Between Griffo and Lavigne.

Mazpeth, N. J. Oct. 12.--The fight between Young Griffo, of Australia, and "Kid" lavigne, of Saginaw, Mich., was declared a draw tonight after 20 hard fought rounds.

Just after the principals had come upon the platform, John L. Sullivan had to make a speech in which he said this was the last year he would ever put on the gloves.

Griffo took the aggressive in the first round, but was staggered by a hard blow in the second. Lavignewas getting the best of it up to the ninth, but Griffo was making a game defense until the tenth, when he came up winded and did some hugging in the next three rounds to avoid punishment. Still he came to the scratch in the fourteenth, but in the next two rounds was driven to the ropes.

In the next three rounds Griffo needed wind and played for it, while Lavigne worked for his heart until the end of the eighteenth when he drove the Australian into his corner and made him groggy with a shower of blows.

In the twentieth Griffo clinched until time was called. Lavigne had demonstrated his superiority clear through. The referee declared it a draw, probably because both men were on their feet at the finish.

 

Gans is to low and Ezzard Charles should be higher then Burley and Moore he is 5-0 against them and has better wins.

 

What? I said he should be rated higher than 10th place, didn't I?

 

Fair enough, those accounts seem more literal and analytic than the ones provided by Casey (through Flesicher), so I'm willing to go by them.

Do you have any sources on the McAuliffe fight which contradict Casey?

 

What's this fascination you have with Marciano? Are you afraid that he may have actually been better than some of the HWs you like?

 

I don't recall ever stating in this thread that I rate Marciano over Ali - even though I do. I also rate Louis ahead of both Marciano and Clay.

 

T Booze,
Ali, srl, louis, jc.chavez & whitaker are way too low imo.

erik morales & barrera should definetely make your list especially when guys like trinidad are on it.
morales & barrera would punish trinidad if the same weight (p4p I guess)

:good