My top 20 heavyweights of all time

Here's the thing - Frazier would destroy that division. I mean it depends on the time frame (if Frazier has the title when Louis loses to Schmeling, what happens then?) but all Frazier is a stick on to be ranked above Frazier and Walcott in my opinion, which I would suggest to you qualifies him, by itself.

Foreman- he's going to tear an absolute swathe through these cotenders and I can't imagine him putting together anything but a very decent resume before Louis stops him.

And if he fights these guys twice each, who knows? They were both exceedingly special in their own right.

It all depends on how it pans out but I'd expect both to remain ranked very highly by fans.

 

Not to me.

If you consider Greb and Wills two of the three best HW's of the era (and I think i'm right in saying Greb beat every HW he ever met) Dempsey now has total domination of a deep division and a superb HW title reign instead of a mediocre one.

He's still the fighter on film that seems to be the main cause of his perpetually high rating but now there are no real criticisms to make of him.

That's the stuff top 5 spots are made of IMO.

 

Well here's what Frazier DID do.

He went 11-0 against the usual suspects then beat

Bonavena x2
Machen
Chuvalo
Mathis
Ramos
Quarry
Ellis
Foster
Ali

Without getting beaten. He was pretty dominant over most of these and only really struggeld with Bonavena (fixed) and Ali (and he never really lost control of that fight).

I don't see that many hard fights for Frazier unless he should run across Ray or the inconsistent Walcott in that era. Yeah, he could lose 1 - or 2 or 3 depending upon circumstances - but I think he would amass a good resume in a very dominant fashion. I think most people would tend to see it that way, though circumstances make almost any outcome possible.

Foreman doesn't have a stellar resume but we all know who he is and what he's capable of. I think he could come up against the very best of the era and do very well. Again, I could be wrong but I think that would be the purveying point of view.

 

And that point is well taken - if someone is burning that brightly they tend to suck all the oxygen out of the room, it's fair to say.

But i do think you are underselling him more than a bit.

Firstly, I think that most would agree that the standard of fighter in the 70's was generally higher at heavyweight than it was in the 40's. This bodes well for Frazier.

Secondly, a fighter can lose a fight in this era and survive with his reputation firmly in tact.

Thirdly, Frazier was diminished by the FOTC, but still had enough left to take out Quarry and Ellis as well as put forth that astonighing effort in Manilla. The only possible deduction is that he would add to resume past-prime.

Finally, the type of presumptions you are making - whilst not unreasonable - are of a certain kind. What if Frazier wins a fight with Louis? What if he beats him prime for prime? I wouldn't favour him, but he was an astonishing fighter, it's not impossible.

What if he gets a young Louis?

What if he gets an old Louis and then goes on Marciano's run?

What if he loses a close pair to Louis as a youngster and comes back to beat up Charles and unify?

Could sharing an era with Louis make him a greater fighter?