My top 20 heavyweights of all time

You should.

 

There is no record of Marciano either to contributing to Vingo's or Louis' treatment, Kitty Vingo was rather bitter that nothing ever materialized on that front ,despite several vague promises. Marciano died before Louis and after reading 3 books on Rocky I've yet to see a reference to him helping him in any way financially.Nor Walcott.
Marciano did tour giving talks with Ezzard Charles when Charles was stricken with amyotrophic lateral sclerosis and was wheel chair bound

 

I've yet to view solid evidence disproving that Marciano compensated Vingo financially as that's all I've ever seen in books and documentaries and let's say for arguments sake he didn't, compassion and friendship is arguably worth more. Same goes for Louis, who Marciano himself idolized and supported in any way he could.

[url]http://mid-south-boxing.2299399.n4.nabble.com/Rocky-Marciano-versus-Carmine-Vingo-td4666412.html[/url]

 

1 Ali

2 Louis

3 Marciano

4 Holmes

5 Dempsey

6 Johnson

7 Lewis

8 Frazier (Before the Ali fight)

9 Jeffries

10 Tyson

11 Wlad klitschko

12 Foreman

13 Schmeling

14 Charles

15 Liston

16 Patterson

17 Walcott

18 Holyfield

19 Tunney

20 Baer

 

Agree with top 3 then it trails off

 

Why above Spinks?

 

Pretty sure Marciano would give Walcott Charles and Louis (other fighters)any gigs he wasn’t able to do and would recommend them. Louis was very upset over the news of Marcianos death from what I’ve heard. Yes Vingo wasn’t hooked up with a job as promised. Then again I’m not sure exactly what was promised or expected.

 

A few reasons really. Spinks was knocked out defending his title and Tunney wasn’t. That’s one factor but not the only one.

Sure, Tunney got out of the game while the going was good. He fought no more heavyweights than Tunney did but spinks second fight with Larry was controversial.

As champion Spinks was not universally regarded the best active heavyweight in the world in the way Gene would have been in his time. When Spinks was champion there were two other men holding world championships. Certainly Spinks had the linear version but Tyson was fast being considered the best out there.

Then Spinks trashed his belt to avoid fighting Tonny Tucker then got iced by Tyson far easier than anyone Tyson fought up until then...proving spinks was always so much further away from Tyson all along.

There was none of this with Tunney. He beats Dempsey the universally accepted champion of the day. Harry Wills had even been beaten by Sharkey by then and Dempsey beat Sharkey between losing both times to Tunney. Then Tunney retires undefeated.

 

I can't forgive Larry for never rematching a tough fight- giving up his title instead of fighting Greg Page- never rematching a disputed decision -Witherspoon-Williams - Weaver -Norton-also never unified the title-against-Weaver-Coetzee-Dokes-Thomas-Tate- still I rate him high at # 10 but his best win was Cooney and Shavers who was already beaten by many so don't get your panties in wad over Larry - I also watched him getting taken out in a stretcher 2X getting KO'd by 5'11 Nick Wells in the amateurs and losing to Duane Bobick so while I think Larry was the best overall of his era but did not prove it against the better men of his era

 

I always have the deepest of respect for your posts @Bummy Davis I also think all the points you raise against Larry ultimately do count against him compared to other champions who were around in less confusing circumstances. I cannot give Larry entirely the benefit of the doubt but among the long list he missed out on (Coetzee, Dokes, Thomas Tate) how many actually had a chance with him or indeed ever proved to be above the men he did beat? The situation back then prevented a contender from challenging the champion because he was given a bogus belt while climbing the ranks..and these kids couldn’t beat more than one guy without losing at top class. Its like had Don Cokkell been given a belt and he lost it to Valdes before he could meet Rocky. Then Moore beats Valdes and winds up never fighting Marciano. I would think in that situation because Rocky still beat Charles and Charles had beaten Moore so many times that Rocky was still the best without having to beat Moore. But maybe I am wrong about that?

 

Vingos $1,500 purse for the fight was used towards the $1000 hospital bill,MSG contributed as well .
"Rocky and Weill always promised a benefit for Vingo to get him started in business."
"Every time I went to see Rocky at the training camp,we'd talk about it again"Vingo said.ButWeill always said,"Not right now,Rocky's got an important fight coming up,After this fight come see us"
"It went that way right up until Rocky's last fight against Archie Moore.Vingo came to Grossingers a few weeks before the fight and Weill said Sure Carmine,We'll talk about it right after this fight"
"Over the years Rocky acted like he really wanted to do something for me",Vingo said,"but he never did".
page138 Rocky Marciano by Everett Skeehan.
Rocky did often give Vingo comps to his fights.

Show me a single shred of evidence that Marciano ever helped Louis financially?
Produce a single piece of proof that Marciano ever assisted Walcott with any finance?

 

On what basis are you pretty sure, where is the proof? I'm not suggesting Marciano owed any of them anything ,I'm simply taking issue with broad statements about him assisting those names financially.

 

My top ten 1Muhammed Ali 2 Joe Louis 3 Jack Johnson 4 Jack Dempsey 5 George Foreman 6 Mike Tyson 7 Sonny Liston 8 Larry Holmes 9 Joe Frazier 10 Rocky Marciano

 

First of all, you'd have to be an absolute fool to believe a single word that came out of proto-Don King Al Weill's mouth. As far as not delivering on Vingo's supposed payout, you forget you're dealing with quite possibly the most frugal man in boxing; if not sports history. This certainly wasn't helped by the fact Al Weill was an overbearing and extortionate serpent, with a strong hand over Rocky's finances. Is that an excuse for not delivering on a promise? No. Is it understandable however why he might not have? Yes.

Second of all, I'm not your private detective "Mr Stupid" go do your own investigative work. Thirdly; I never once stated that Walcott was supported with envelope payouts the way you're hinting at. But I know for a fact Rocky put him on his show and remained close with him. This is the world of professional boxing by the way and compared to his peers (especially today) Marciano is practically a saint. Again, wasting everybody's time with your hate. Just acknowledge the man's good points so we can all move on.

 

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Feel free to take the rest up with the Marciano family.