My top 20 heavyweights of all time

"Tyson at his best was better than Holyfield at his best."

Well, I don't know what country you are from, but being American I can only use American analogies. The baseball season runs from April to October. You don't become the champion because you have the best record through June or July. You don't become the American football champion by having the best record in October and November. It is a long season and winning over the long haul and winning the big games is what count.

I just don't accept the "at his best" criteria for greatness as it amounts to non-evidential opinion, and I don't think it is definitive even if the opinion is correct.

"Holmes, Stewart"

I think Holyfield beat these men. This is a "Ali had trouble with Norton while Foreman blew him out, so Foreman beats Ali easily" argument and there isn't anything to it. Sluggers always look unbeatable in their wins because they tend to blow the opponents they can beat out early. If they can't blow them out early, things start going south, as they did with Tyson against Douglas and Holyfield, or Foreman against Ali and Young.

"Holyfield lost to Bowe"

When into his thirties, and he also beat him. By the way, the only actual loss on Bowe's record. When did Tyson reverse his losses to Douglas or Holyfield? Holyfield also KO'd Moorer in a return. Holyfield beat every fighter he fought up until Lewis, when he was 37. This argument amounts to Tyson getting a pass for his losses while Holyfield's are held as critical, a rather egregious double standard.

On Tyson's inactivity, he had less of that by the second fight. The bottom line here is that Tyson couldn't beat Holyfield, or really give him that tough a fight, in two tries although he was four years younger. One might argue that what happened in Tyson's private life cost him, but it doesn't really matter. A baseball team losing a star pitcher to an arm injury is bad luck, but it doesn't make them champions. Bad luck is just part of life.

Bottom line for me--Holyfield over Tyson in all-time rankings is really a no-brainer.

 

It's a lame list.
Wladimir Klitschko??? Why? Don't fool us!
The seemingly neverending bum-beating means nothing.
The quality is more important than the quantity in boxing.
His best wins are Haye and Povetkin by points.
The fat bum purity destroyed wladimir klitschko in his prime.
The fat bum Sanders destroyed wladimir klitschko easily in his prime.
The fat mediocre Brewster destroyed wlad klitschko in his prime.
Was w. klischko undisputed champion ?
Plus w.klitscho never had objective problems by circumstances(like trainer,drug,
prison,mental,health problems...)

 

1. M. Ali
2. L. Holmes
3. L Lewis
4. J. Jeffries
5. J Louis
6. V. Klitschko
7. S. Liston
8. G. Foreman
9. W. Klitschko*active
10. J Dempsey
11. R Marciano
12. E Holyfield
13. M. Tyson
14. R. Bowe
15. J. Frazier
16. J. Johnson
17. K Norton
18. G. Tunney
19. S. Langford
20. B Fitzsimmons

 

My top 20 Joe louis era onwards..i simply cant relate to any earlier...grainy b+w films etc.. so no disrespect to anyone pre that era..


1 ALI
2 LOUIS
3 LENNOX
4 HOLMES
5 MARCIANO
6 TYSON
7 LISTON
8 FRAZIER
9 FOREMAN
10 NORTON
11 W KLITSCHKO
12 CHARLES
13 HOLYFIELD
14 BOWE
15 V KLITSCHKO
16 PATTERSON
17 WITHERSPOON
18 TUCKER
19 RUDDOCK
20 DOUGLAS

21 TYRELL X

 

Interesting.

 

He retired for 4 years:rofl Then he just defended nobodies from one sanctioning body while another top HW faced the rest of the division. He could of fought Haye to impove his record but chose Charr instead.

But you went ahead and ranked him top 20 anyway:rofl

If the SMW division had been weak like this HW division , Bute would still be seen as world class if he continued his run of weak opponents. But he faced a demon like Froch and was exposed.
Who did Vitali ever face and beat to prove he was world class?

 

Joe Louis- 25 title defenses
M. Ali- fought everyone in divisions most talented yrs
L. Holmes- 20 title defenses
J. Jeffries- dominated his era retired unbeaten before Ill advised comeback
L. Lewis- defeated every man he faced
R. Marciano- undefeated and fought everyone-opponents were old
G. Foreman- fearsome slugger and great comeback-could be outboxed
J. Dempsey- a terror in the ring popularized the sport
W. Klitschko - dominating a decade facing all challengers
J. Johnson- defensive wizard dominant prime - weak title defenses
J. Frazier- smoking joe the engine that wouldn't quit - 1-4 against best of era
S. Liston- feared heavyweight and could box. Ducked long time. Quit twice against best foe
G. Tunney- magnificent fighter wasn't at HW long enough to raye higher
M. Tyson- unstoppable at peak. Never same post prison - short prime
E. Charles-Master boxer top 10 p4p traded wins and losses at hw
M. Schmeling-second best HW of the 1930s defeated prime Louis
E. Holyfield-all heart- went 1-4 against Lewis and Bowe. Stayed too long
S. Langford - top 5 p4p numerous masterful wins best work not at HW
H. Wills- dominated a decade but was not allowed to compete against everyone
V. Klitschko - returned after 4 years and continued to dominate never defeated decisevely

Just missing the top 20- Jeanette, Walcott, fitzsimmons, Bowe, Sullivan

I often change my mind and obviously my explanations are abbreviated summaries. Thinking from accomplishment stand point and didn't factor in mythical h2h matchups.

 

Evander has too many losses. I have him @ 12.

 

Why no Archie Moore when you've endlessly built a case over how terrific a fighter he was as a heavyweight going into the Marciano fight ? It's like how all those that try to sell Carnera as legit never list him as a big puncher despite all his KOs ..

 

My top ten is a mix of accomplishments and head to head.

Rocky is #11 for me. Just outside the top ten. Size matters, and Rocky was just too small I think in a head to head sense.

I do not view Charles or Walcott as top ten material. Few do. Top 20 is debatable. If this were the top 30, but make it.

Hard core Klitshcko fans of both brothers know Vitlai is the better. Vitlai has had much more success against the same opponents who beat Wlad ( Purrity, Sanders ), or gave Wlad a hard fight ( Peter ) . Vitali is harder to out box, and has the better chin by a mile. Head to head, I think he's a monster, and his longevity is impressive.

Those who saw Jeffries felt he was a top 3 guy up to the 1960's. Were they wrong? Some of the best posters here in Ted Spoon and Seyna have Jeffries at #1

I'm not that high on Fraizer in a head to head sense, and feel Bowe matches up a bit better vs the punchers.

 

why's come no hasim rahman?!

 

Archie Moore would make my top 35 or be in that range, reasonable argument he could be top 25 or even higher, one of the greatest contenders of all time.

Wins over Bivins, Valdez, Baker, Henry, Lavorante, Sheppard, Payne, Buddy Walker, Besmanoff, Whitehurst, Norkus, and Slade.

And only lost to Maricano, Patterson, and Ali. Damn fine HW resume.

 

Also Reische,Kalbfell and Rademacher, and a draw with Pastrano. Also the wins over Maxim and Johnson who though only lightheavyweights had impressive Hw resume es.

 

Good points. Maxim did regularly come in as a HW but was within the limit when Moore beat him. Still, I would be tempted to slide Moore over Ingo and Vitali at the very least.