My top 20 Welterweights, all time

Holmes since we have so much footage of Leonard how can you justifiably rate him so high?

 

Great job! :good :good :good

 

The great lightweight Benny Leonard would be more justified as the #2 welterweight than Ray Leonard.

 

This is rather like talking to Zakman about Lewis. It's an utter waste of time as there's ZERO objectivity at all just a blinding biased against the guy. It doesn't surprise me at all that that redrooster gets on like this as we're all well used to it by now.


An otherwise knowledgable and subjective poster like Manassa, though? I'm surprised. :verysad

 

It must tell you something that I'm knowledgable and unbiased in other fields, but 'not' in this one. The truth is, I'm not biased at all here, and I'm at my normal self when talking about Leonard - I just see his career for what it is.

 

Leonard TKO14 Hearns
Leonard SD12 Hagler
Leonard TKO15 Benitez
Leonard TKO8 Duran (or did Durans stomach 'quit'?:dead)

Reason enough. :hi:

 

Are as you familiar with the merits of all the others you listed?

 

Hearns weight drained, bad stoppage.

Hagler far past prime, bad decision.

Benitez better at 140lbs, terrible stoppage.

Duran not prepared, not focused.

 

Come on Holmes. You going to make me wait all day for an answer?

 

Ain't it ironic how Hearns gassed out just as Leonard launched his barrage to finish matters.

Doesn't take away the legimacy of the win, Leonard was coming off two-odd years of inactivity and wasn't given that much of a chance. Hagler was still seen as the top dog. Ray dictated the exchanges for the most part and stole whatever close rounds there were. The very best defecit you could give Hagler is 5-7. Hagler lost pure and simple, get over it.

Benitez was still very good at that weight, no excuses. Debatable stoppage given the very short time time left, but Benitez was cut dazed and would have lost on the scorecard anyway.

A dodgy steak + laxatives = stomach cramps. Perhaps that soft drink Roberto consumed beforehand contained copious doses of sugar. Or maybe he just quit.

 

I'm actually in work mate and got lumbered with a pretty substantial and urgent job, done now. I can't be browsing around here all day ya know.

 

Hagler lost. Funniest thing I've heard all day! Watch the fight again

And remember, punches that nearly landed don't count.

 

Yet you just gave that lengthy explanation to Manassa. Just tell your boss you have more important things that you need to settle on ESB. He'll understand.

Seriously, do you think victories over Benitez and Hearns are going to mean jack**** to old timers 60 years back and farther? A win over a lightweight with six bouts at welter? Another with 3 defenses of some alphabet organization to his credit. And Benitez with no defenses-that makes him a great fighter? The fight itself was enough to put anyone to sleep

Those names wouldn't mean **** because those are people who aren't as familiar with our generation...just as you are not familiar with the who's who list from other eras.

So good luck with your explanation.

 

I saw the thread title and your name as the last poster and just knew what and who you'd be banging on about!!!