My top 30 Heavyweights head to head from 1930-1952

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SuzieQ49, Apr 17, 2015.


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  1. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Head to Head

    1. Joe Louis
    2. Rocky Marciano
    3. Max Schmeling
    4. Ezzard Charles
    5. Jersey Joe Walcott
    6. Max Baer
    7. Billy Conn
    8. Archie Moore
    9. Jack Sharkey
    10. Jimmy Bivins
    11. Elmer Ray
    12. Bob Pastor
    13. George Godfrey
    14. Buddy Baer
    15. Steve Hamas
    16. Primo Carnera
    17. Tommy Loughran
    18. James J Braddock
    19. Lee Q Murray
    20. Clarence Henry
    21. Lem Franklin
    22. Lou Nova
    23. Bob Baker
    24. Rex Layne
    25. Turkey Thompson
    26. John Henry Lewis
    27. Abe Simon
    28. Tony Galento
    29. Arturo Godoy
    30. Roland Lastarza

    HM: Larry Gains Tiger Jack Fox, Harry Bobo, Lee ramage


    That was by far the hardest rankings I have ever done. So many guys on the same level. A lot of solid depth.
     
    SuzieQ49, Apr 17, 2015
    SuzieQ49, Apr 17, 2015
    #1
  2. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Very good list.
    Good to see Bob Pastor and Steve Hamas in the top 15.
     
    Unforgiven, Apr 18, 2015
    Unforgiven, Apr 18, 2015
    #2
  3. Surf-Bat

    Surf-Bat Boxing Addict Full Member

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    That's a tough list to pull off, so I like to be careful with any criticism. I agree with much of it. I definitely take the hard-hitting Lee Q. Murray to KO Elmer Ray and his unreliable whiskers. I'd take him at his best any day to whip Braddock as well (Nova takes Braddock too and I'd place him higher, but it was nice to see him listed). Curtis Sheppard beat several guys on the list, so maybe he should be listed. Same with Harry Bobo.

    All in all a solid list. Kudos.
     
    Surf-Bat, Apr 18, 2015
    Surf-Bat, Apr 18, 2015
    #3
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Outstanding list.

    I'd move LaStarza up a little; I'd move Bob Baker down I think, though I see what you mean. The wheels just came off so violently there, I'm not sold. I'd move Conn above Baer, and I think Conn would beat Baer. I'd move Hamas above Baer and Godfrey. I 'd move Loughran above Carnera and Buddy Baer - yes Carnera beat him and Baer might even be favoured, but against the field, Loughran is better. Could beat Baer prime, Bivins prime, Ray prime etc., I don't think either of them are pulling that off.

    But all i'm saying to you here is arguable - that's a great effort.
     
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2015
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2015
    #4
  5. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    Larry Gains ?

    Obie Walker ?

    Without question a terrific list .. well done ..
     
    he grant, Apr 18, 2015
    he grant, Apr 18, 2015
    #5
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah, Gains definitely belongs. I'd bin one of these for him:

    27. Abe Simon
    29. Tommy Farr

    Walker is arguable, but I don't mind what i'm seeing instead of him. Also, there are 31 fighters on the list, so technically someone needs binned off anyway.
     
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2015
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2015
    #6
  7. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I think Tommy Farr belongs.
    He was 1-1 with Max Baer, went the 15 rounds with Louis, and I believe he was robbed against Braddock, and the Nova fight was razor close if I remember rightly.
    (On the other hand, his 1936 win against an old Loughran was said to be a gift.)
     
    Unforgiven, Apr 18, 2015
    Unforgiven, Apr 18, 2015
    #7
  8. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I'm not entirely sold on LaStarza, tbh.
     
    Unforgiven, Apr 18, 2015
    Unforgiven, Apr 18, 2015
    #8
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I'm not sure Farr was robbed against Braddock.

    "Braddock deserved the award."
    https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=BiIEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6510,4665557&hl=en

    "Until the ninth Farr was leading 5-3. But the last two rounds changed the whole complexion of the fight."
    https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AAIBAJ&sjid=YVsEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6587,737993&hl=en

    "It was desperately close...a draw would have been a fair decision."
    https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=F2ENAAAAIBAJ&pg=4440,3961198&hl=en

    To me, it sounds like a really close fight that could have gone either way but went to the former champ and hometown fighter. Absolutely standard. It should be mentioned though that Farr would have won if he hadn't had the third taken away for low blows.

    The footage favours Farr in an overall sense, but it's hard to tell with highlights and if he's better it's very very narrow.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re_eAb2qHsQ


    Overall, robbed is too strong a word I think.
     
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2015
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2015
    #9
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I've no real objection to Farr in the thirty though, he'd certainly be in the 35 and those type of margins aren't worth arguing about.
     
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2015
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2015
    #10
  11. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Very good list but I think you missed Ernie Schaaf who holds wins over Max Baer, James J Braddock, Tommy Loughran (2x), and Tony Galento all post 1930 and all on your list.
     
    The Long Count, Apr 18, 2015
    The Long Count, Apr 18, 2015
    #11
  12. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I like your list,

    although of course there would be a lot to debate.

    Your placement of Carnera is interesting.

    *The one guy I thought of who is not on the list was also Ernie Schaaf--like The Long Count.
     
    edward morbius, Apr 18, 2015
    edward morbius, Apr 18, 2015
    #12
  13. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    Roland Lastarza way higher. He beat #24 Layne after all.

    You can look good in defeat and he looked really good losing to Marciano. Looked top class and pity the first fight film doesn't exist. He apparently looked even better in that.
     
    dinovelvet, Apr 18, 2015
    dinovelvet, Apr 18, 2015
    #13
  14. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    :good
     
    Bummy Davis, Apr 18, 2015
    Bummy Davis, Apr 18, 2015
    #14
  15. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Solid effort.

    Spots 1-10 are almost the same as mine. I am a bit surprised at how low LaStarza is rated. I would have Buddy Bear a bit lower.

    Larry Gaines belongs for sure.

    Does John Henry Lewis belong?
     
    Mendoza, Apr 18, 2015
    Mendoza, Apr 18, 2015
    #15
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