My Top 50 All Time Heavyweights

have you met these things called girls?

 

A very good list---One could quibble with placement, but your list is excellent.

Some suggestions:

Missing and should/could be added:
1. Elmer Ray--Case for--between 1940 and 1948 Ray went 74-2 with 1 no contest over a 77 bout streak, while defeating two top 20 all-time heavyweights, Walcott and Charles, at or near their primes. He also knocked out longtime top contender, and eventual alphabet champion, Lee Savold impressively.
Case against--His wins over both Walcott and Charles were extremely close. Turkey Thompson blew him out in 1 round in 1943 and he never defeated Thompson.
Bottom line--Impressive statistical record and wins over Walcott and Charles enough to earn him top 50 slot.

2. Rex Layne--Case for--at peak between 1950 and 1952 defeated prime or near prime top twenty ATG's Walcott and Charles. The Walcott victory was decisive. Also defeated 1940's perennial top contender Turkey Thompson and ko'd the dangerous Bob Satterfield. Few contenders hold such impressive victories.
Case against--went back quickly after ko defeats by Marciano and Charles. Was ordinary from 1953 on. His victory over Charles was close and disputed.
Bottom line--Wins over two top twenty prime or near prime heavies, plus the big win over Satterfield, would earn him a spot somewhere in the forties for me.

3. Tommy Loughran--Case for--Few have his heavyweight resume--defeated 3 champions, Braddock, Baer, and Sharkey, and ten men who were ranked in the top five of the Ring's yearly rankings at one time or another, Jack Renault, Paolino Uzcudun, Johnny Risko, Young Stribling, Tuffy Griffiths, King Levinsky, Mickey Walker, Ernie Schaaf, Steve Hamas, and Arturo Godoy. This does not count Harry Greb.
Case against--Somewhat erratic. He was beaten quite a few times-Sharkey, Risko, Stribling, Schaaf, Hamas, and Godoy all defeated him, as did quite a few others, mainly when he was going back.
Bottom line--defeated so many top men that a top fifty placing seems reasonable to me. Probably in top ten of heavyweights in depth of resume.

Take off list:
1. George Godfrey--might have worn cuffs, but his record is just not good enough to justify top 50 placement.
2. Ike Ibeabuchi--didn't do enough-wins over two contenders not enough for top fifty, in my judgement.
3. Chris Byrd

 

As much as I think some over-rate Tyson, I have to agree. He is a top-ten HW all time. For as much excuses as are given to some ATG's Tyson needs few.

 

It looks like an all-around reasonable list on the whole. I think Tyson, Lewis and Wills are too high, and that John Ruiz DOES NOT belong on the list. Otherwise, there's nothing I disagree with too strongly.

 

jeffries at 14 is much to low, his opp. might have been slightly smaller but that dont meen they were any worse than the chunky heavies of today dempsey i.m.o. is in a mix among louis and ali and rocky in the top 4 he -pre title would destroy(very quickly) most of todays heavys a list like this is very hard and constantly changing at least it would be for me so good job sullivan is prob. a little high also

 

I did notice one more thing looking over the list, so I will bring it up.

What is the justification for Weaver being rated and Douglas not? Douglas has a better record, probably defeated more good fighters, and has the great win over Tyson. Weaver never defeated anyone who could be considered the best fighter in the world at the time. Weaver had a very erratic career, with 12 ko defeats in 60 fights, a terrible percentage.

If Weaver gets this high a rating on the basis of head-to-head, I do not think it is deserved.

 

Very good list! I only have two major things to critizise and a some lesser ones.

 

I like that you rank Wills. He's often forgotten or under-appreciated. Looks like a solid list to me.

 

strongly disagree, i look at it the other way. a very green wills was thrown in against far more experienced live versions of mcvey jenette and langford and in 1914 still very green, willis managed to beat jenette and langford! very impressive. as wills got more and more experienced, he blew these guys out of the water.

 

i disagree old fogey. Elmer Ray won the first fight, but got cheated by the record books. ray beat the hell out of thompson for 6 rounds when thompson got frustrated because he couldnt win and hit him intellionally low. it should be a DQ 6 win for elmer ray.




That said great list muchmoore, we have pretty much the same top 7 in my new list, different order. i do think elmer ray should easily be in the list, he rates # 22 on my list. he was a tall 6'2 190lb 81" reach puncher-swarmer with excellent defense skills and two fisted power. he has an excellent win resume Charles, Walcott, Thompson(first fight), peaks, O thomas, savold, Obie Walker, Perk Daniels. all these men were top 10 when ray defeated them. peaks and walker were 6'4 225lb powerful black fighters.

 

So you want ike to be taken off since he did not do enough for 2 wins over young undefeated prime top contenders of the era, yet vitali who never beat an inshape rated contender deserves to stay on the list?