My Top 50 HWs?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by George Crowcroft, Sep 14, 2020 at 1:01 AM.


  1. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Question mark as it's still very much a WIP and some on-the-job feedback would be useful.

    Some base rules: no prime, active fighters. H2H does not factor in. At all. I'll give fighters credit for however I scored some or their fights. For instance; Tua > Ike, due to me scoring their encounter 115-113 Tua. And it's my criteria, so I'm playing fast and loose with things. If I'm inconsistent, there's probably some form of rationale behind it. There were a lot of picks here that I really had to check my biases for.

    Some of the guys who just missed the cut:

    Cleveland Williams, Marvin Hart, Carl Morris, Gene Tunney, John Ruiz, Ray Mercer, Ernie Shaaf, Ernie Terrell &c.

    Edit: NEW LIST

    #50. Greg Page
    #49. Michael Moorer
    #48. Lamon Brewster
    #47. Gerrie Coetzee
    #46. Sam McVey
    #45. Hasim Rahman
    #44. Fred Fulton
    #43. Gene Tunney
    #42. Mike Weaver
    #41. Pinklon Thomas
    #40. Joe Jeannette
    #39. Tommy Loughran
    #38. Primo Carnera
    #37. Michael Spinks
    #36. Jerry Quarry
    #35. Jimmy Young
    #34. Sam Langford
    #33. Rex Layne
    #32. Eddie Machen
    #31. Archie Moore
    #30. Alexander Povetkin
    #29. Sam Langford
    #28. Vitali Klitschko
    #27. Bob Fitzsimmons
    #26. Ingo Johansson
    #25. Tim Witherspoon
    #24. Ken Norton
    #23. Chris Byrd
    #22. Harry Wills
    #21. Max Baer
    #20. Jack Sharkey
    #19. Jersey Joe Walcott
    #18. Max Schmeling
    #17. Jack Johnson
    #16. James J Jeffries
    #15. Riddick Bowe
    #14. Jack Dempsey
    #13. Floyd Patterson
    #12. Ezzard Charles
    #11. Sonny Liston

    #10. Mike Tyson
    #9. Rocky Marciano
    #8. Joe Frazier
    #7. Wladimir Klitschko
    #6. Evander Holyfield
    #5. George Foreman
    #4. Lennox Lewis
    #3. Larry Holmes
    #2. Joe Louis
    #1. Muhammad Ali
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020 at 6:21 AM
  2. Noel857

    Noel857 I Am Duran Full Member

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    Can`t believe you have left Gene Tunney out.
     
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  3. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Meh, I don't think five fights at the weight when only two have genuine significance and they were vs a guy who was shot, old, fat and inactive. And one of them was still controversial.

    I find him very overrated on the whole. I'll take Spinks over him every day.
     
  4. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    Good list. Its very hard to do a top 50 so commendable effort on your part. I might do a top 50 someday myself but will need to think about it.

    I like Tim Witherspoon in your top 25. I am a fan of his, i am glad you rate him highly. His powerful overhand right and his crab defense made him a formidable fighter IMO.

    Moore over Langford is something that i would respectfully disagree with. Yes, there is less footage of Langford but we do have some decent footage of him. Langford has a couple of wins over your #22 ranked Wills. Even though Langford lost the rivialry to Wills, he does have wins over the #22 ranked guy and i think Langford's win over Wills is better than any of Moore's heavyweight wins. I am a big Moore fan but would rank Langford ahead at heavyweight.

    I dislike the way Wladamir and his excessive clinching tactics. His chin is also suspect. I can see why you rank him #7 and he did make a lot of defenses. I wouldn't have him in my top 10 but i am biased. I rate Liston very highly but i can see why some people would rank him low.

    Very good effort though. I am glad you rate Schmeling and Witherspoon highly.
     
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  5. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Will have a look later. First thing that came to me was no Greg Page!!!!
     
  6. ecto55

    ecto55 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Pretty good effort - I might take issue with certain names but that's always going to be due to 'bias'. From your top ten it looks like your main metric is duration / quality of title reign? If so, good. From about no.20 onward it looks a little harder to work out the 'how' and some names like G.Coetzee and P.Thomas are particularly curious - I assume they're personal favourites? Anyway, interesting list...but my god, no Elmer Ray!
     
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  7. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I knew you'd say that, I saw the exact same comment on a SuzieQ thread from two years ago. :lol:

    Page was a little too inconsistent on the whole to be considered IMO, and his top wins aren't good enough to make up for that like Risko's were. But I'm not against Page creeping in over Tua.
     
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  8. Johnny_B

    Johnny_B Active Member Full Member

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    This is a very good list, although mine would be based on H2H
     
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  9. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Actually no, I've always preferred Résumé to Longevity or Consistency.
     
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  10. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    :D

    Good on you for having a go at a top 50 mate. Highly agreeable to Page replacing Tua!!! Now that's a list!
     
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  11. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Very nice overall!

    Two things stood out-If you are considering resume & not head to head & thus have many old timers ranked highly, I agree that Langford is too low. Also if a fighter if denied shots due to something like race you need to extrapolate about how he is lilkely to perform.

    An given how dominant he was-especially considering how few rounds he ever lost-don't you think you have Vitali too low?
    Edit: even without considering H 2 H favoring a giant modern fighter or longevity or consistency or his amateur, kickboxing or karate career...I cannot see how you have him outside of the top 20. His success & the record of his opposition is deeply impressive.

    Although I do think you shoul consider consistency & longevity when considering greatness, even if you weaigh it less than some.
    28 is just way too low for such a successful champion.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020 at 3:00 AM
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  12. Webbiano

    Webbiano Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    How did you score Ali-Young and Ali-Norton 3?
     
  13. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Men like Ernie Terrell, Zora Foley, Tommy Loughran, Harold Johnson, def deserve spots over the likes of Brewster, Moorer, Risko, Coetzee.
     
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  14. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I thought Ali lost both 8-7ish.
     
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  15. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti A Being of Inexplicable Inclinations Full Member

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    I think there might actually be a decent case for Young Stribling ahead of Tommy Burns.

    I don't think Risko deserves to be there.