My Top 50 HWs?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by George Crowcroft, Sep 14, 2020.

  1. BCS8

    BCS8 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Aug 21, 2012
    Not bad. Pretty close to mine insofar as the top 10 are concerned. My problem is usually H2H vs resume when ranking.
    mattdonnellon likes this.
  2. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    Sep 15, 2009
    If you have a HW top 50 you have to have Tunney in it.

    I think Johnson is top ten, can't believe anyone would have him below Jeffries tbh. But I can forgive him outside the Top ten as he's top 15.

    I think Patterson is too high but I under rate him.

    Langford is wayyyyyyyyyy too low.

    Overall a decent effort.
    Noel857 likes this.
  3. The Morlocks

    The Morlocks Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Nov 21, 2009
    Being 10 yrs apart, Foreman really should be ranked as 2 different and distinct fighters. Completely different style, stamina, size, speed, etc. They were different guys. I would also separate 60s Clay from 70s Ali. But Foreman for sho!
  4. CharlieFirpo85

    CharlieFirpo85 Member Full Member

    Feb 26, 2020
  5. The Long Count

    The Long Count Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Oct 8, 2013
    I always appreciate the effort put into these lists, good work. Of course we can all quibble over placements, but that’s the fun. Any top 50 list, even by Nat fleischher himself is bound to spark debate and derision. It’s impossible not too. Going over your own criteria I do have slight issue with Bowe at 15- you said H2h makes no factor at all, if that’s the case it’s hard to rate him that high based on resume. Do like your top 10. Keep up nice work
    George Crowcroft likes this.
  6. VVMM

    VVMM Well-Known Member Full Member

    Nov 16, 2012
    Sorry but this is an incredible stupid list. Some examples:. Risko never was better than Moorer.Holmes' 3. and wladimir klitschko's 7. place
    are too good.Vitali klitschko was far better than witherspoon,Patterson,Charles,fitzsimmons,Wills.
    All in all this is your opinion but the reality is a different thing.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
  7. Gudetama

    Gudetama Active Member Full Member

    Sep 11, 2017
    Nice job. Always interesting to read these kinds of lists. We all weight our lists according to different criteria. You said you don't go in for the hypothetical H2H. Some favour looking at eras, or longevity, or activity, or opposition past records, or even losses, fame, or pure size. I understand that you've probably taken many factors into consideration. If pushed for a favoured criterion, would it be fair to say you are mostly a "wins column" man? No criticism, as it's the strongest factor. Just wondering.
    George Crowcroft likes this.
  8. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

    Mar 3, 2019
    Yeah, absolutely. A win sheet strong enough can get you very far in my book. Hence Risko's inclusion. I can't help but think that if you've beaten countless great fighters then you've proven your greatness in a way that excuses for losing here and there.
    Gudetama likes this.
  9. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Apr 27, 2005
    In breaking and very obvious news this list is resume based. Oops.
    George Crowcroft likes this.
  10. Arminius1

    Arminius1 Member Full Member

    Jun 7, 2019
    I agree Vitali klitschko should be in the top 10.
  11. Gudetama

    Gudetama Active Member Full Member

    Sep 11, 2017
    That's fairplay.
    I tend to concoct my own lists on a basis of 75% who I think they'd beat/lose to, and 25% who they actually beat/lose to. So I'm sure your list is much more valid than mine.
    So ignore some of the nasty comments. No need for them. Constructive criticism from the really knowledgeable posters here (one of whom I am most definitely not!) is worth much more.
  12. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

    Mar 3, 2019
    I doubt it is, I probably agree with most of your H2H takes.

    I can definitely get behind H2H rankings. Actually, I love them. Analysing styles and abilities is much more fun than debating historical significance and placements IMO. If it was purely based off H2H, the list would look very different.

    I don't know if it's deep rooted arrogance (which I've been told it definitely is :lol:) or anything, but I just brush those 'nasty comments' off because I know I know better. Plus, like I said in the OP, it's still not finished. I want Hasim Rahman and Greg Page (@JohnThomas1 just for you darlin ;)) in there, and I'll deep a few of the main talking points in here before I readjust it.

    It won't be a list made by committee or anything, but I'll take what people say into account.
    JohnThomas1 likes this.
  13. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Jan 22, 2009
    Well done George!!!!!
    George Crowcroft likes this.
  14. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

    Jun 2, 2006
    Loughran beat
    I wouldn't place Loughran so high, but he has a very good resume.
    Why do you keep making up names for fighters ?
    Don't you think they are entitled to be called by their proper names ?
    WTF is wrong with you?
  15. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

    Mar 3, 2019
    I often find that I can both agree with a comment and disagree with it. It basically just depends on what frame of mind I'm in when I see it. So, with that said; I've read all the comments (apart from Ra's') after a couple days, and I've looked at it through fresh eyes. I shall mourn the loss of Risko, who I really wanted to have there, and thought he truly deserved it but looking objectively at achievements of guys above him, he ended being pushed out. RIP little man.

    Anyway, looking back, I agree that Langford should be above Moore, and that Tunney should be included (especially if I'm putting Spinks in). I also agreed that Page is greater than Tua, and I completely spaced on where to put Sullivan both this time and last.

    Guys who missed the cut, second time round:

    Shaaf, Burns, Sharkey, Risko, Tua, &c.

    #50. Greg Page
    #49. Michael Moorer
    #48. Lamon Brewster
    #47. Gerrie Coetzee
    #46. Sam McVey
    #45. Hasim Rahman
    #44. Fred Fulton
    #43. Buster Douglas
    #42. Gene Tunney
    #41. Mike Weaver
    #40. Pinklon Thomas
    #39. Joe Jeannette
    #38. Tommy Loughran
    #37. Primo Carnera
    #36. Michael Spinks
    #35. Jerry Quarry
    #34. Jimmy Young
    #33. Rex Layne
    #32. Eddie Machen
    #31. Archie Moore
    #30. Alexander Povetkin
    #29. Sam Langford
    #28. Vitali Klitschko
    #27. Bob Fitzsimmons
    #26. Ingo Johansson
    #25. Tim Witherspoon
    #24. Ken Norton
    #23. Chris Byrd
    #22. Harry Wills
    #21. Max Baer
    #20. Jack Sharkey
    #19. Jersey Joe Walcott
    #18. Max Schmeling
    #17. Jack Johnson
    #16. James J Jeffries
    #15. Riddick Bowe
    #14. Jack Dempsey
    #13. Floyd Patterson
    #12. Ezzard Charles
    #11. Sonny Liston

    #10. Mike Tyson
    #9. Rocky Marciano
    #8. Joe Frazier
    #7. Wladimir Klitschko
    #6. Evander Holyfield
    #5. George Foreman
    #4. Lennox Lewis
    #3. Larry Holmes
    #2. Joe Louis
    #1. Muhammad Ali
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020