My Top 50 HWs?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by George Crowcroft, Sep 14, 2020.


  1. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

    17,559
    23,036
    Sportsbook:
    500
    Mar 3, 2019
    I doubt it is, I probably agree with most of your H2H takes.

    I can definitely get behind H2H rankings. Actually, I love them. Analysing styles and abilities is much more fun than debating historical significance and placements IMO. If it was purely based off H2H, the list would look very different.

    I don't know if it's deep rooted arrogance (which I've been told it definitely is :lol:) or anything, but I just brush those 'nasty comments' off because I know I know better. Plus, like I said in the OP, it's still not finished. I want Hasim Rahman and Greg Page (@JohnThomas1 just for you darlin ;)) in there, and I'll deep a few of the main talking points in here before I readjust it.

    It won't be a list made by committee or anything, but I'll take what people say into account.
     
    JohnThomas1 likes this.
  2. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    17,315
    2,763
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jan 22, 2009
    Well done George!!!!!
     
    George Crowcroft likes this.
  3. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The one and only! Full Member

    12,850
    1,245
    Sportsbook:
    1,306
    Oct 17, 2014
    What wins of Tommy Loughran justifies a ranking on place 39 in Heavyweight, out of interest?

    Marciano is too low and Charles some places too high (should lower than Walcott and Wills).

    I don't think Byrd should be in the top 50, let alone Tua. John L. Sullivan was a lot higher rated than them.
    Layne is not even top 100 in my view (even Morrison, McCall, Cooper, Golota, Fury, Mavrovic, Bruno, Bugner, Douglas and Joshua among others have to be higher).


    With Johansson I agree.

    The places 48 - 50 are about 20 places too low.

    The places 40 - 42 and 44 to 46 shouldn't belong in the list (although Coetzee could be in the top 70 and Thomas around 80).

    Quary and Young should be approxiamately twenty places lower, Powetkin too . In fact Ruslan Tschagajew achievement is not much worse and is comoarable with Chris Byrd, ahead of Coetzee and Ellis.
     
  4. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    91,929
    18,410
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 2, 2006
    Loughran beat
    Sharkey
    Godoy
    Renault
    Braddock
    Hamas
    Levinsky
    Schaaf
    Risko
    Griffiths
    Poreda
    Uzcudun
    Baer
    I wouldn't place Loughran so high, but he has a very good resume.
    Why do you keep making up names for fighters ?
    Don't you think they are entitled to be called by their proper names ?
    WTF is wrong with you?
     
  5. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The one and only! Full Member

    12,850
    1,245
    Sportsbook:
    1,306
    Oct 17, 2014
    Some of these defeated him too and several wins of it were in Light-Heavyweight. He was in Heavyweight not even top 15 of his decade, there has Walker a better claim in Light-Heavyweight than him in Heavyweight.

    I always write the names correct here, in opposite to you. So I don't know what nonsens to you spread out here again...
     
  6. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

    17,559
    23,036
    Sportsbook:
    500
    Mar 3, 2019
    I often find that I can both agree with a comment and disagree with it. It basically just depends on what frame of mind I'm in when I see it. So, with that said; I've read all the comments (apart from Ra's') after a couple days, and I've looked at it through fresh eyes. I shall mourn the loss of Risko, who I really wanted to have there, and thought he truly deserved it but looking objectively at achievements of guys above him, he ended being pushed out. RIP little man.

    Anyway, looking back, I agree that Langford should be above Moore, and that Tunney should be included (especially if I'm putting Spinks in). I also agreed that Page is greater than Tua, and I completely spaced on where to put Sullivan both this time and last.

    Guys who missed the cut, second time round:

    Shaaf, Burns, Sharkey, Risko, Tua, &c.

    #50. Greg Page
    #49. Michael Moorer
    #48. Lamon Brewster
    #47. Gerrie Coetzee
    #46. Sam McVey
    #45. Hasim Rahman
    #44. Fred Fulton
    #43. Buster Douglas
    #42. Gene Tunney
    #41. Mike Weaver
    #40. Pinklon Thomas
    #39. Joe Jeannette
    #38. Tommy Loughran
    #37. Primo Carnera
    #36. Michael Spinks
    #35. Jerry Quarry
    #34. Jimmy Young
    #33. Rex Layne
    #32. Eddie Machen
    #31. Archie Moore
    #30. Alexander Povetkin
    #29. Sam Langford
    #28. Vitali Klitschko
    #27. Bob Fitzsimmons
    #26. Ingo Johansson
    #25. Tim Witherspoon
    #24. Ken Norton
    #23. Chris Byrd
    #22. Harry Wills
    #21. Max Baer
    #20. Jack Sharkey
    #19. Jersey Joe Walcott
    #18. Max Schmeling
    #17. Jack Johnson
    #16. James J Jeffries
    #15. Riddick Bowe
    #14. Jack Dempsey
    #13. Floyd Patterson
    #12. Ezzard Charles
    #11. Sonny Liston

    #10. Mike Tyson
    #9. Rocky Marciano
    #8. Joe Frazier
    #7. Wladimir Klitschko
    #6. Evander Holyfield
    #5. George Foreman
    #4. Lennox Lewis
    #3. Larry Holmes
    #2. Joe Louis
    #1. Muhammad Ali
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
  7. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

    17,559
    23,036
    Sportsbook:
    500
    Mar 3, 2019
  8. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

    50,329
    9,097
    Sportsbook:
    1,988
    Jul 21, 2012
    1- Muhammad Ali
    2- Joe Louis
    3- George Foreman
    4- Larry Holmes
    5- Rocky Marciano
    6- Lennoks Lewis
    7- Mike Tyson
    8- Evander Holyfield
    9- Joe Frazier
    10- Tyson Fury
    11- Riddick Bowe
    12- Jack Dempsey
    13- Sonny Liston
    14- Jack Johnson
    15- Gene Tunny
    16- Wladimr Klitschko
    17- Antony Joshua
    18- Ken Norton
     
    Jason Thomas likes this.
  9. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

    17,559
    23,036
    Sportsbook:
    500
    Mar 3, 2019
    ****... It needs Buster Douglas.
     
  10. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

    53,200
    8,548
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 29, 2007
    You were right to remove Risko.

    My comments: You listed Sam Langford twice at #39 and #34, so you can add one more fighter.

    Why Layne in the top 50? Your worst pick

    Do you really think Vitali Klitschko would not beat many of those ranked higher?

    Sharkey ar Bear lost way too many times to be #20 and #21

    Holyfield lost way too often, didn't always look good while winning and had too few title defenses to be #6.

    Tunney is way better than #43
     
    George Crowcroft likes this.
  11. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

    17,559
    23,036
    Sportsbook:
    500
    Mar 3, 2019
    No, Risko shall be sorely missed.

    Cheers didn't see that, makes it easier to put Buster in as I don't need to rejig the entire list around it.

    Layne beat two guys in the top 20, plus a bunch of other rated fighters.

    Please re-read the bit where I explicitly stated: "H2H does not factor in. At all."

    How you mean they lost too many times? What bearing does that have?

    You have an irrational hatred of Evander Holyfield.

    Disagree. I guess I can see him up til 35, but he shouldn't be above Spinks, Loughran. He didn't fight there enough, and beating an old Dempsey isn't that impressive IMO. Risko and Gibbons are okay wins.
     
    Bonecrusher likes this.
  12. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    91,929
    18,410
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 2, 2006
    Braddock is the only one atLhvy.
    Loughran was no
    8 in1930
    6 in1931
    2 in1933
    5 in1935
    As usual you are talking out of your arse Fruit Loop.
    Name a year Walker was ever top ten ranked at LHVY?

    Show me anywhere, in any rankings, I can see the name RUSLAN TSCHAGAJEW ?
    Which alphabet boxing body,boxing magazine ,rankings feature him?
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
  13. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Active Member Full Member

    979
    1,044
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Feb 18, 2019
    A good effort.

    Some reaction by me. I would put Jeffries above Dempsey on resume. And I would switch Lewis with Holmes. Machen was very steady in beating second-tier guys, but failed consistently not only against champions (losing to Johansson, Liston, Johnson, Patterson, and Frazier, with only Johnson competitive--Maxim was totally washed up) but also failed to beat his best non-champion opponents, Folley and Williams. Quarry was greenish and stepping up for the first time. I think #32 is too high for him.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
  14. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Ii6 Full Member

    4,733
    4,786
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    May 30, 2019
    Tunney over Schmeling?
     
  15. Noel857

    Noel857 I Am Duran Full Member

    419
    490
    Sportsbook:
    171
    Mar 24, 2019
    Pleased that you have now included Tunney,still feel he is to low though