My top 50 Punchers from 1930-1960(Heavyweight Division)

Nice work, SuzieQ!

 

SuzieQ49

well, if you want feedback

Generally good list-I would switch 2 and 3 but that is a close call.

Positives

I think you hit most of the guys who belong. I can think of only one major omission which I will get to later.

I like that Turkey Thompson got the high rating he deserved.

Overrated--No one that much.

Underrated--two stand out to me.

Lee Savold never gets any respect, but the guy fought them all and really ran up an impressive list of KO victims. Savold has 11 KO's over men rated at one time or another in the Ring's yearly top ten, and KO's over all kinds of fringe contenders from the mid-thirties on into the fifties.

Savold KO'd--Ford Smith, Maurice Strickland, Lou Brooks, Buddy Knox, Lou Nova (2), Bill Poland, Johnny Flynn, Nate Bolden, Lem Franklin (2), Eddie Blunt, Bob Garner, Kid Rivera, Dulio Spagnola, Buddy Walker, Gino Buonvino, and Bruce Woodc-ck

I would move Savold up 20 or so places.

Charley Retzlaff has a surprisingly imposing KO record, with 52 KO's in 75 fights, and over some good men.

Retzlaff KO'd--Art Lasky (2), Tom Heeney, Al Ettore, Stanley Poreda, Jack Roper, and Walter Cobb.

I would move Retzlaff up 20 or so places also. I think both Savold and Retzlaff should rate ahead of Tommy Gomez.

The guy you overlooked--Eddie Machen. Understandable, as he was a clever boxer, but he could punch and KO'd a lot of top guys. He stopped 29 of 64 opponents.

Machen KO'd--Nino Valdes, John Holman, Hurricane Jackson, Pat McMurtry, Billy Hunter, Mike DeJohn, Brian London, and Alonzo Johnson.

I would place Machen somewhere in the 20's.

I think Irish Bob Murphy and Fitzi Fitzpatrick were basically light-heavyweights and shouldn't be on this list at all and certainly not as high as they are listed. I would dump them for Machen for one.

Other possibilities--Bruce Woodc-ck KO'd 31 out of 39 opponents. While he wasn't as effective as this stat makes it appear, he did KO Lesnevich and Mills, and also Oma. There were rumours of that fight being a fix, but Oma wasn't very durable, so who knows. I could see Bruce W at or near the bottom of the list.

Joe Bygraves was a trial horse who was briefly British Empire heavyweight champion. He lost a lot and and was mainly an opponent, but right to the end he could pull the upset and flatten a rising youngster.

Bygraves KO'd--Jack Gardner, Johnny Williams, Henry Cooper, Gerhard Zech, Franco De Piccoli, and Albert Westfall.

 

I'd maybe drop Schmelling down a few, apart from that nice list up until 35. Minus Savold I know very little about most fighters past 35

 

Great list and great comments by Morbius. Agree on Retzlaff and I think Schmeling too high. Carnera too but I'd have Stribling in there. And as wild cards, Jack Doyle, Baksi, or Mederos?

 

He was the only man to stop Stribling and Louis, well one that wasn't ancient anyway. I can see why he's been placed that night, just wouldn't put him there myself

 

Great list. A really strong era for punchers.

 

Good overall effort. I am amused at those who felt DeJohn ( in another thread ) had great power, and I think your placement of him is about right.

I would move Ingo above Schmeling.

Biggest disagreements.

- I think Cleveland Williams should be in the top ten.

- I also think Charles, Moore, and Walcott should be lower. I would place Ray, Galento, and Gomez above Charles, Moore, and Walcott.

 

Williams, Ray, and Gomez

What they share is heavily padded records which look great on paper but fade quite a bit under critical scrutiny. Gomez has imposing stats, and certainly could punch some, but was basically what they would have called a provincial fighter back in the day. He was quickly KO'd by Walcott when they met.

Ray was KO'd by Charles.

One can quickly see the danger of assuming that knocking out a whole raft of second or third tier or worse guys makes one a top puncher at the top levels.

 

I'm justifiably turned on by JJW being in the Top 10.

 

The new list is good.

The one big change I would make concerns Savold who I still think deserves to rank higher. I would switch him with DeJohn.

DeJohn's only KO's over top ten fighters were Alex Miteff, Charley Powell, and Billy Hunter. None were ever in the top five of the yearly ratings and all were KO'd often.

Savold certainly has stronger credentials, with 7 KO's over five men who were ranked either before or after or when he fought them in the top five. This might not be super impressive, but it is much more impressive than DeJohn.

 

"he lacked a good physique"

Unlike Galento.

Really the Marciano fight should not even be considered. Does anyone really think he should be expected to have won it?

Look, Savold lost most of the time to top men, and to all of those who were at the top of their game. But hhascup once posted that Savold fought 55 fights against guys rated at one time or another, and managed to win 28.

DeJohn also failed against all of his better opponents, but didn't meet nearly as many and hasn't anything like equally impressive victories or knockouts.

*personally, I think rating Hein Ten Hoff over Savold as a puncher is really beyond ridiculous. Are we judging punching ability or height?

 

Great list but Primo does not belong on it .. we all know this ..