I based my selections on length of dominance or brilliance and quality of opposition, KO Power and Skill. Intangibles like courage, coming up big in the top fights. I also gave value to guys moving up in weight fighting the top bigger guys and being competitive. 1. Ray Robinson 2. Ali 3. Joe louis 4. Harry Greb 5. Joe Gans 6. Sam Langford 7. Ezzard Charles 8. Roberto Duran 9. Henry Armstrong 10. Willie Pep honorable mention possible substitution: Benny leanord, 1. I think its a Decent list. What would you guys change? where am I wrong and why? I welcome input as this list is not in stone but only the first print of an evolving top ten until its perfect, your views are part of the process. Whats wrong and whats right with this list?
I am not as knowledgeable as the regulars here in the Classic yet, but I believe the biggest problem people will have with your list is the fact you have two HW's in the top ten, when the HW division is comparatively the weakest division in boxing history.
I thought of that but then louis did reign for 12 yrs 1 loss to Schmeling which he avenged. Clearly at his best this guy was unbeatable. but the losses to Marciano and Charles and Billy Conn the 1st fight where louis comes from behind weaken his status! still 12 yrs of sustained greatness have to mean something at a time of extreme racism. What he did was incredible. 2. Ali in his prime has a good chance of winning a fight againts any great heavy in History from Dempsey and louis to lennox and Tyson. The loss to Frazier after three yrs of exile hurts his leagacy also as Does the Spinks and Holmes fights. But the guts courage and monsters he beat in one of the most competitive eras in Heavyweight history I feel he is vastly underrated on these forums.
but look at my criteria for selecting them. Skillset is not the only thing its what transpires and one does with it over time in the top encounters. So in essence my selection criteria is off?
I'd have Armstrong higher, Ali and Louis lower and i'd have Pep over Duran. But P4P is all in the eye of the person making the list. For the most part it seems decent though.
Those are good arguments for including them in the top 10 in the first place, but not for placing them in the 1 and 2 spots over guys like Duran, Greb, Charles and Langford. in a P4P sense, those four, especially, should be much higher. I like that Ali and Louis are on the list, they deserve to be, but not at the very top. Also, I don't think Ali's and Louis' losses late in their careers count against their legacy all that much, if at all.
1. Sugar Ray Robinson 2. Henry Armstrong 3. Sam "The Boston Tar Baby" Langford 4. Joe Gans 5. Joe Louis 6. Jack Johnson 7. Jacvk Dempsey 8. Muhammad Ali 9. Roberto Duran 10. Benny Leonard/Willie Pep
I offer my top 4 only...listing the next 6 becomes messy. Its based on opinions of all we can place into context of the careers of all 4 men. Enough contraversy will be attained with these listed names, let alone a further 6. 1. Muhammad Ali. 3 times Heavyweight Champion. The size of Ali, combined with the athleticism, durability, boxing skills, mental strengths and self belief personify the perfect, enduring career. His style was suitable down to the Welterweight division. Ali never ducked a single opponent.. The ones he perhaps should have, he destroyed. Liston and Foreman, at the respective time, could have been avoided without arguement or persecution for a fair amount of time, for numerous reasons. Having accomplished all he did at H/W, I wonder of his potential at lesser weights, had his genetic make up allowed. He leaves little room for arguement, as no stone was unturned during the most epic era of the H/W division. 2. Sugar Ray Robinson. Undeafeted Welter Champ, 5 times Middleweight Champ. Light Heavy contender. The career of Sugar Ray is unforgiving to say the least. His skills, combined with combinations landed with efficiency, power and pinpoint precision are second to none. His chin was GRANITE, his left hook deadly, right hand dynamite and forward and backward fighting ability incredible. The middle weight era in which he contested remains the finest period in history... also the most punishing. A 20 page summation of his career would be too short to convey accordingly, all positive attributes of SRR. Henry Armstrong. Feather, Welter, Light Champ. similtaniously. Middle weight contender. The man was a freak. Holding the 3 titles is impressive, along with 19 Welter defences in 2 1/2 years... formidable. Gaining 3 title in 10 months???? Go figure...Having defeated Garcia at welter in a title defence, only to draw at Middleweight for the crown, suggests room for open ended arguements regarding that fight. For mine, Armstong is too often overlooked.... His record is outstanding. The fact he went the distance with a 23 Y/O Robinson, himself 32 Y/O speaks volumes of his personal longevity and ringcraft. A 20 page summation would not afford the career aspects to be detailed sufficiently. 4.Joe Louis. Heavyweight Champ. Im sure some feathers will be ruffled. What did Joe not do???? His tenure as H/W Champ was longer than Marcianos Pro Career. His longevity at the top laeves Marciano in the shadows.. 25 successful championship defences including 3 years inactive defence time...a single loss from `34-`50.... 2 of 3 defeats after the age of 36..... Marciano, HW champ 11 months later, and considered by many the NO.! HW of all time, took 8 rounds to finish 36 Y/O Louis..... Say what you will.... Louis is the single most inspiring athlete of the first half of the 20th Century.
Always subjective... This is as good a list as I've seen... You could have Archie Moore, Sandy Saddler and Jimmy Wilde in there. That's about all I can say.
Using your criteria, Langford should be your #1. He moves from 147 to HW, beating ATG fighters all the way. He showed monumental power considering his natural weight class, and scored a one punch KO over Harry Wills. Courage? He fought blind. There is no way you can rate him below Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali, it cannot be justified. I like your pacing of Duran. It is reasonable to have him above Pep, but only just. Ray Robinson is a fine #1, but are you sure Greb's lack of KO power isn't overwhelmed by his astonishing resume? He should be higher, as shuld Armstrong. Have you seen the footage of this featherweigth pushing back Garcia? [qute]honorable mention possible substitution: Benny leanord,[/quote] Lenard can be justified outside of the 10, but he should be above Joe Louis in my opinion. You're right.
Not a bad list. Ali and Louis are too high, Langford and Armstrong too low. Swap those guys around and I wouldn't disagree too much. Personally I would include Benny Leonard and Mickey Walker instead of Gans and Louis.
I'm surprised Barney Ross hasn't made the bottom half of these lists. Ray Leonard surely has a good shout as well based on his resume alone.
