Myth that American leading heavyweights are in other sports-

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Utter1, Jul 9, 2009.


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  1. Utter1

    Utter1 Active Member Full Member

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    I keep reading about the so call lack of great American fighters which i believe is a myth to simply what is going on in the current situation with the heavyweights.
    Before the 1990s......North America had access to the biggest population and best facilties to garner great fighters. Add to that fact that the socio-economic background for most of the greats wasnt great and added huge motivation then what we saw from the earlys 00s to the late 1980s was a dominence of the flagship sport of fighting.

    If we take away fighter pre 1960 and say start with Sonny Liston who in my belief ushered a new breed of heavyweight that was big and skilled then America can count on just 8 fighters that most would claim to be great since 1960 to 2009 which qualifies as 49 years. To be kind we take away the last decade so let just say 40 years.

    Sonny Liston
    Muhammed Ali
    Joe Frazier
    George Foreman
    Larry Holmes
    Mike Tyson
    Evander Holyfield
    Riddick Bowe

    Therefore going along with most people and who they speak of most.....the 8 selected garner the most attention as the best fighters of there respective time period. Which to my estimation is around 1 great fighter for every 5 years.

    By all accounts its a very good number of top top fighters and turning out this many every 5 years is top stuff.

    But what if we were to take guys like Sonny Liston or a Riddick Bowe out? Who lack longevity and are really only basking in a few good wins? That changes things and dosent make the picture as nice.

    Also add to the fact that the Soivet Union collapsed in 1991 resulting in a Nation known for its sporting prowress letting 200 million plus people into the professional arena.

    Along with decrease in travel time, access to the internet, communications such as Satallite then you have fighters from oceania, asia, south america, africa and europe getting the best available source of info and latest training methods. Knowledge spreads along with better facilities.

    Whilst it took the best part of the 1990s for the ex-soviet fighters to really emerge as a dominent force we are also seeing the early stages of another allthough small populance nation In Cuba producing good heavyweights.

    African heavies are also able to move abroad which gains them better access.

    The only time we could see an even greater shift is when China and India two countries that have over 2 billion people start to create a better breeding ground for athletes to compete in.

    Now if say from the 1960s to earlys 1990s America had to condend with western europe, africa and the ex-soviet union for domience of the heavyweight division then we could have seen an entirely different picture or maybe not.

    Heavyweights are also getting alot of stick for how they look but Joe Frazier was a fat 205, as was larry Holmes a fat 210 as was the second version of Larry Holmes, as was Riddick Bowe.

    I havent got a huge amount of time to go into BUT i will say this.......the likes of C. Byrd, L. Brewster etc who are good fighters are a little unlucky that they had to fight men who are big and skilled coming from all types of other nations that never had facilty to compete before.

    Imagine Byrd not having to face a 6'2 nigerian, 6'6 1/2 and 6'7'1/2 ukrainian, a 5'9 power punching samoan, etc

    Or just imagine that 95 per cent of his opponents were just from one Nation - America

    Anyhow must be gone.......be nice to see a mature dicussion on this
     
    Utter1, Jul 9, 2009
    Utter1, Jul 9, 2009
    #1
  2. RUSKULL

    RUSKULL Loyal Member banned

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    Very good post. The myth that all the best athletes in the USA compete in other sports is just sour grapes from those that can't accept the new diversity in just about every division.
     
    RUSKULL, Jul 9, 2009
    RUSKULL, Jul 9, 2009
    #2
  3. ghettowizard

    ghettowizard Member Full Member

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    Sep 17, 2008
    Myth, my ass!!! Take a look at all the NBA players and NFL players who would be considered HW's and are competing at the highest levels and compare the talent pool to big, strong, athletic, explosive, US HW boxers
     
    ghettowizard, Jul 9, 2009
    ghettowizard, Jul 9, 2009
    #3
  4. walk with me

    walk with me Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Nov 17, 2007
    dog get outa here... nobody trying to hear this nonsense......
    first of all.... nobody is trying to be an american boxer in 2009... why you ask?

    - its not offered in high school
    - you cant get a college scholarship doing it
    - you dont get girls doing it (as you do with basketball & football)
    - theres no organization to the sport that angles kids to try it
    - nba, nfl, mlb,nhl, pga, mls, and sports outside the country ALL makes better money than the average boxer

    2nd of all.. in all honesty.... if the non american boxers you were talking about were actually really good and huge threats i might agree with you....

    but if you look over time at a technical standpoint and a skill standpoint..

    wladamir
    vitali
    ruslan
    povetkin
    valuvev
    peter

    all ****ing suck.... the only 2 that dont "suck" are wlad & viatli... and they are just pretty good.... in the past 100 years of hw division ... they probably not even top 20 all time hw's

    so its the lack of depth.... doesnt have anything to do with the so called "closing the gap" of the world...
     
    walk with me, Jul 9, 2009
    walk with me, Jul 9, 2009
    #4
  5. walk with me

    walk with me Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    i mean seriously... i normally do not participate in discussion involving the hw division but you ****ing people make me sick to my stomach


    - these euro, african fighters... are pure garbage... which if anything does more to disagree with your point then it does to support it
    - vitali & wlad have multiple losses to journey men that are c level fighters (vitali has a stronger case than wlad)
    - no top 10 heavyweight has beaten a hall of famer including wlad & vitali
    - none of them have even beat any talented fighters
    - the #1 hw wlad got knocked out 3 ****ing times... by BUMS! i dont know how you can stand up for a guy who got knocked out by journey men
     
    walk with me, Jul 9, 2009
    walk with me, Jul 9, 2009
    #5
  6. unclepaulie

    unclepaulie Run like an antelope! Full Member

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    This, along with the fact that boxing is about as popular as soccer in the USA and also that gyms are closing left and right and have been for years.
     
    unclepaulie, Jul 9, 2009
    unclepaulie, Jul 9, 2009
    #6
  7. JohnAkiBoa

    JohnAkiBoa Well-Known Member Full Member

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    bingo, this is the key, it is a importand fact which USA Citizens tries to underestimate and not giving Credit

    This exactly why Americans will propalby never get in the top again, because biased full, uneducated ******s like this.
     
    JohnAkiBoa, Jul 9, 2009
    JohnAkiBoa, Jul 9, 2009
    #7
  8. tolindoy

    tolindoy UBESTRIDTE MESTER Full Member

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    Jan 22, 2009
    Those big players can't punch and are ****in pussies!!!:smoke
     
    tolindoy, Jul 9, 2009
    tolindoy, Jul 9, 2009
    #8
  9. boxsensei

    boxsensei Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    :good:goodReal Talk!
     
    boxsensei, Jul 9, 2009
    boxsensei, Jul 9, 2009
    #9
  10. JohnAkiBoa

    JohnAkiBoa Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I am ****ing embarrased for guys like WWM(we are the best):oops::patsch
     
    JohnAkiBoa, Jul 9, 2009
    JohnAkiBoa, Jul 9, 2009
    #10
  11. walk with me

    walk with me Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Nov 17, 2007
    no little kid gives a **** about boxing... these stupid hw co-signers have a hard time understanding this....

    ever since the 90's the nba & nfl contracts have been larger than they ever have been and in the recruiting process they can start as early as the 5th grade ( i just read an article the other day how peopel feel its unethical that they rank the top 100 5th graders in basketball).... the point is .....basketball & football have gotten so popular & financially lucrative that wasting time wtih boxing would be completely stupid
     
    walk with me, Jul 9, 2009
    walk with me, Jul 9, 2009
    #11
  12. nezy37

    nezy37 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Jul 13, 2007
    How the **** does that have anything to do with our tallent in boxing. Yeah, some guy gives an opion in wich you don't agree with so we won't produce any top HW any more....****ing brilliant.:lol:


    Secondly, those that criticise our opinions regarding how weak our HW's are don't actually live here and have no first hand knowledge as to what the **** they are talking about.

    Basically what it comes down to is we are failing to get kids involved. Be it mommy doesn't want the kid to get hurt or there is no gym withing 100 miles or general lack of interest. Boxing isn't even on the radar for most Americans.

    twat
     
    nezy37, Jul 9, 2009
    nezy37, Jul 9, 2009
    #12
  13. unclepaulie

    unclepaulie Run like an antelope! Full Member

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    I'll also be willing to bet that once the last generation of Soviet-trained boxers retires there will be much more parity in most divisions, but especially HW.
     
    unclepaulie, Jul 9, 2009
    unclepaulie, Jul 9, 2009
    #13
  14. walk with me

    walk with me Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Nov 17, 2007
    you are really not looking at the big picture... the super middleweight division and up... which is 168 and higher..


    the average super middle weight im sure atleast walks around anywhere in between 175-185 as the higher the weight division goes.. the higher the walking around weight of these guys & the average height of a guy from smw - hw can be anywhere from 6'0 - 6'6 ....

    what you people are ignoring are that.. the typical kid that rangers from 6'0 - 6'6 and weighs 175-220 is being HOUNDED by middle school & high school coaches ... and the parents make things even worse.... parents who live in poverty see these coaches stalking kids & the money these guys make once they make it to the big time and they basically FORCE their kids inside a basketball or football uniform... and if the parents arent there.. its more of a social norm to play baskebtall or football...

    then lets say these kids dont play either of these 2 sports right... there is no coahches recruiting kids for boxing, more than likely NONE of their friends encourage them to box or even participate in boxing, its not a social norm to box...

    its not about how good the heavyweights are now.... its about how bad they are



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    walk with me, Jul 9, 2009
    walk with me, Jul 9, 2009
    #14
  15. JohnAkiBoa

    JohnAkiBoa Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Mar 27, 2009
    :patsch:-(

    All what I said was you try to act like those Europeans who are ruling now are there ONLY because boxing in America has declined. Do you understand now smart ass? I know it has declined but the another fact is those Europeans have only little time ago get a change to get in Pro's. Pro boxing in Europe is only starting to rise and we have already HUGE succeess at it.

    Best from Europe for Pro boxing is only Coming... Pro boxing at Europe are still in child shoes over all and we already see we can have some great success too.
     
    JohnAkiBoa, Jul 9, 2009
    JohnAkiBoa, Jul 9, 2009
    #15
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