Name 7 Hw's thats beat Vitali h2h

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Drknowitall, Dec 13, 2009.


Page 7 of 11
  1. TheGreat

    TheGreat Boxing Junkie banned

    13,028
    14
    Jan 12, 2005
    No way in hell that version of Lewis would've beat Rahman, Holyfield or even Ruiz, hell the shot Tyson of 02 would've had a chance. Lewis was there for the taking, Just like all the other greats before him, as it turned out Vitali just wasn't and still isn't all that good.
     
    TheGreat, Dec 13, 2009
    TheGreat, Dec 13, 2009
    #91
  2. Fighting Weight

    Fighting Weight Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    15,428
    3
    Jan 10, 2005
    My point was a simple one, you asked for names of guys that were as good as VITLAY at 38 so I named one :huh

    Incidentally, Foreman had a long lay-off too, maybe that's the reason? I think I am being objective here, and being objective I'll look at the list of opponents that Foreman beat pre and post layoff and comfortably say that as a 38 year old he shits all over VITLAY.
     
    Fighting Weight, Dec 13, 2009
    Fighting Weight, Dec 13, 2009
    #92
  3. king s

    king s Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,912
    1
    Jan 7, 2009
    The list goes on:
    Jack johnson
    Dempsey
    liston
    marciano
    bowe
    frazier
    lamotta
    And could go deeper and pick out at least another 15-20
     
    king s, Dec 13, 2009
    king s, Dec 13, 2009
    #93
  4. JASPER

    JASPER Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    15,214
    8
    Jul 21, 2007
    I think Razor Ruddock, Bowe and Ike would beat him aswell. Frazier Had the right style but I think he was to small I would say that is a pick-em fight. I know there is more why limit to 7. Cooney could have beat him and maybe spinks (micheal). Marciano was one tough SOB but i think he was to small aswell. man If I think about it I could probably name ten more.
     
    JASPER, Dec 13, 2009
    JASPER, Dec 13, 2009
    #94
  5. suicide booth

    suicide booth Guest

    Balboa
    Drago
    Creed
    McBride
    ..That's all I can think of
     
    suicide booth, Dec 13, 2009
    suicide booth, Dec 13, 2009
    #95
  6. sheedyxx

    sheedyxx Member Full Member

    332
    0
    Jun 14, 2009
    Who was Tyson and Ali beating at 38 years old, wtf?

    Vitali is 6ft 8 and has an iron chin, that's the only reason he's beating people at this stage of his career. He's a freak of nature, nobody can get near enough to him in this era of awful heavyweights. His technical skills are poor compared to the top heavyweights of the past, he would get exposed. Prime Vitali was knocked out by Lewis, the only decent fighter he's fought. Who has he beaten that anybody cares about? 270 pound Danny Williams? Vaughn Bean?
     
    sheedyxx, Dec 13, 2009
    sheedyxx, Dec 13, 2009
    #96
  7. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

    71,036
    27,681
    Jul 26, 2004
    Thank you :thumbsup I disagree, and find it likely that Vitali would cruise to a close decision 9 times out of 10, with byrd having his moments and almost always winning the last two out of the three rounds, but still lose about 7 rounds to 5. I can def see how you think Tua could pose some serious problems to Vitali down the stretch, i could def see Tua hurting Vitali if Vitali gasses against him which would be his one, and only chance the way i see it going into this fight, is banking on vitali gassing completely, otherwise i see it as a whitewash for Vitali, which is what i find likely, but i appreciate your opinion on breaking it down, i can see why at least you think so, and indeed, vitalis stamina makes him vulnerable.... :good
     
    kirk, Dec 13, 2009
    kirk, Dec 13, 2009
    #97
  8. millertime1367

    millertime1367 Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,777
    1
    Sep 11, 2008
    last time i checked, throwing 81 punches in round 8 doesn't constitute exhaustion by a heavyweight....Lampley said it was a gift, and Mr. and Mrs. Bryd showed they knew it too with tears in their eyes post fight

    do you base your theory of Vitali having a stamina problem on the fact that he holds his arms down and his mouth open? he does that **** from round 1 till the end
     
    millertime1367, Dec 13, 2009
    millertime1367, Dec 13, 2009
    #98
  9. Fighting Weight

    Fighting Weight Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    15,428
    3
    Jan 10, 2005
    It doesn't constitute injury either, so why did he quit like a woman?
     
    Fighting Weight, Dec 13, 2009
    Fighting Weight, Dec 13, 2009
    #99
  10. millertime1367

    millertime1367 Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,777
    1
    Sep 11, 2008
    ****, idk...interested to know but it wasn't out of fear of being walked down by Byrd
     
    millertime1367, Dec 13, 2009
    millertime1367, Dec 13, 2009
    #100
  11. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

    71,036
    27,681
    Jul 26, 2004
    Ya, meaning.... people are shitting all over Vitalis performances, fine.... but to not even bring into account that perhaps the reason he looks so slow and bad is that hes 38? which is why i brought up who was tyson beating when he was 38?

    When your talking heavyweight champions, EVERYONE is a freak of nature in their own way. This is the biggest cop out ive seen.

    Guess what.... Nobody around him had Tysons blazing speed eather
    Nobody around him had Alis reflexes and speed
    Nobody around Foreman had his pure power

    Vitali doesnt have speed, and one punch power, not so much. But he makes himself hard to hit, throws a lot of punches, takes a good punch and does what he has to to win. Hes adapted to his strengths and weaknesses to fight at his most effectiveness, and thats all that can be asked. Do people need a list of all the fighters that have been 6'6-6'8 that HAVNT been champions to realise that being 79'' tall does not a champion make? Does it help him? hell ya it does.... and although important (especially to him winning) is it that much more a 'freak of nature' then Foremans crippling power? Tysons speed? Alis reflexes? all the other things in which one is born with and one cannot train for? no.... all fighters are born with certain things that they must use, or adapt to their absence, to the best of their ability, to make themselves the best they can, vitali was not born with tysons speed, or foremans power, just as they were not born with his size. In the heavyweight division, when talking upper tier fighters, things usually have a way of balancing themselves out.

    The.... well hes 6'7'', of course hes going to be champion is a cop out.

    I agree for the most part, vitali has a poor resume at least to me, when compared to greats.

    His technical skills are relatively poor, i agree, but so to, to a certain extent, is the very man in your avatar. Some fighters tend to adapt to whatever style they are suited for best, and while i think that that SHOULD be held against them at some point (meaning if they dont adapt and become smarter as they regress physically and become less effective in their current style, ala the guy in your avatar as opposed to say, bernard hopkins), i believe also that to use it as a measuring stick to how they are as fighters, if they are indeed effective without them, can be somewhat flawed.


    anyways people, its merely my opinion. Believe it or not, i am not a fan of vitali... was just shocked that so many people started pissing on him after this fight. I dont have him as a top 10 heavyweight of all time, and i think there are plenty of people that beat him head to head, but at the same time, i think theres a middle ground that the majority of the people in this thread have gone past, and are now themsleves being a bit irrational, and i see this often from the boxing historians.... and i just wanted to voice my opinion that although vitali may not be some ATG overall, that hes still damn good, and that a fight at the tail end of his career when hes 38 years old and against an opponent completely unwilling to do anything but survive is a bad gauge of how vitali is as a fighter overall, and that people are putting too much stock into how vitali is looking at age 38 into his rating as a fighter.

    But ive said my two.... i see your guys's points and i dont completely disagree.

    :good
     
    kirk, Dec 13, 2009
    kirk, Dec 13, 2009
    #101
  12. Polymath

    Polymath Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,651
    4
    Sep 29, 2007
    Haye
    Wlad
    Povetkin
    Chambers, maybe?

    Can't think of another three.
     
    Polymath, Dec 13, 2009
    Polymath, Dec 13, 2009
    #102
  13. FeldMunster

    FeldMunster Member Full Member

    473
    0
    Jan 6, 2007
    So you are saying that Rahman, Holyfield, Ruiz (Ruiz!....RUIZ!), and Tyson on that night would have beaten Lewis. In other words they would also beat Vitali. And then what, you wake up from your dream and suddenly those guys are back to being what they really are, which is not nearly as good as Vitali Klitschko in 2003. If those guys were as good as you claim then why didn't they completely dominate the division from 2003 to present? I think you may be overreacting to the situation at hand.
     
    FeldMunster, Dec 13, 2009
    FeldMunster, Dec 13, 2009
    #103
  14. thesandman

    thesandman Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,606
    5
    Jul 29, 2004
    If Lewis being 37 and at the heaviest of his career isn't brought into account by Klit fans when discussing Vitlay losing that fight, in fact, it's more often than not dismissed by them.

    So why does Vitlay get another pass? Is it because of his "peoples' champion" throne he won that night?

    Perhaps the reason a 31 year old Vitlay actually lasted 6 rounds with Lewis, is that Lewis was slow and bad, due to his age? Added to the fact that unlike Vitlay, he hadn't had a 3 year lay off or whatever it was?

    As for the whole physical aspect - fighters like Tyson - who rely on the physical attributes such as speed etc, will never last as long, because those attributes fade with age.

    Fighters like Vitlay (and Lewis, and Foreman) who have other attributes that don't fade with age - height, reach, etc - will always last longer at a higher level.

    Lewis had speed when he was younger, but adjusted his style over time to make up for losing speed. Foreman in his second career maximised his physical advantages, and minimised the impact of age by fighting in a manner that allowed him to do that.
     
    thesandman, Dec 13, 2009
    thesandman, Dec 13, 2009
    #104
  15. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

    56,149
    10,575
    Jul 28, 2009
    I say if you want H2H speculation, Vitali may be a top ten. But legacy wise, accomplishment-wise, he is very much not a top ten. I like the guy but I couldn't make a case for top ten ATG.
     
    Boxed Ears, Dec 13, 2009
    Boxed Ears, Dec 13, 2009
    #105
Page 7 of 11