Name a time when a loss made a fighter better

I'm not talking about Tunney, i have no idea on that one.

Joe Louis certainly benefited. He worked on technical deficiencies and learnt a huge lesson about complacency. The guy didn't lose another fight for 14 years and put forth a record reign. I have no idea about the medical claims on Louis and "the 40's" is a long leash. When in the 40's? He was peak at the start of them but shot by the end of them so of course at some stage things are going to deteriorate. Even if this claim was true how would they/you know beyond doubt it was the Schmeling bout? He was quite reasonable as far as boxers go in later life.

He was checked in 51 by a doctor that had checked him previously. He had supposedly slipped in a few different area's. Who wouldn't have tho at that point given he was no longer in the prime of his life and had been boxing for so long.

Hagler's whole demeanor was molded in no small part by those early losses and a bad decision or two. Lewis' loss to McCall had him find a much much more professional team. Losses can be great.

 

I tend to agree. I think it's an overused boxing cliche that seldom holds up under closer inspection.

 

Keen to hear your reasons as to why Louis didn't come out the other side of Schmeling 1 a better fighter.

 

I would have to take a close look at Louis’ career but what’s the evidence, exactly? He was still susceptible to being outboxed and countered, and Schmeling himself observed that Louis never really fixed the flaw he had noticed (I think?). I could be wrong but it doesn’t seem like an obvious case to me.

 

Disagree. A fighter can get away with flaws and mistakes or even lacks training if he's winning because the sting of losing is what sometimes jolts a change. That is necessary sometimes to improve.
Duran/DeJesus. He cried after the fight but he made his opponents cry for the next 9 years.

 

When would you say Louis ever come into a bout so under-prepared again? It's well documented he spent much of the training camp with not only his new wife but others as well. He was also playing heaps of golf (walking many miles in the hot sun) and getting lax in training. Blackburn is on record during camp saying he was worried about this fight due to the poor camp. I will contrast this with his pre fight comments before the Schmeling rematch.Ray Arcel is on record as asking Blackburn what's wrong with your fighter after seeing him during said camp.

He also received a wealth of experience and exposure to things not going right.

I cannot see how any argument can be made that Louis' loss to Schmeling did not teach him a great lesson as to "professionalism", one that carried him the next 14 years without defeat.

Now to the technical side.

Schmeling did enjoy much success with his superb right hand over Louis' lowered left. This was also aided by Joe's poor condition and lack of normal sharpness. It is also something Schmeling was extremely good at.

After the loss Blackburn worked on defending against right hand onslaughts and how to counter them.

Granted Schmeling had not got any younger (but he'd also been winning) but how did things go in the rematch? You say he said the weakness was still there - how did he go exploiting it the second time around, 2 years later? We all know what happened.

Contrast Blackburn's comments leading into the rematch with his previous - "Yes, sir, this time i feel different about Joe's chances than i did the first time. This time Joe can't miss. He knows how to fight Max this time and he has got the experience he needed. I had worried before that other fight, but not this time".

One can say Walcott caught Joe a few times with big counter rights. I will say well look at Joe's career stage. It's like Ali - Shavers, Holmes - Spinks etc. Those guys didn't look real good either. On top of this in another thread i put up clips of Joe making in fight adjustments to fend of that counter right and at other times counter it after being knocked down early. Walcott also may have been the best or close to the best Heavyweight counter puncher we ever saw.

You say he was susceptible to being outboxed. How many times did this happen, who won the fight and what career stages was he at for these occurrences? No-one is great against every style.

Lets defer to Blackburn's own words following the Schmeling loss - "it was the best thing for Joe's future as a fighter - that he got a licking and just at the right time. Naturally, Joe had faults when he first fought Schmeling, faults that a young fighter is bound to have. He didn't figure to know what to do if he got hurt because he had never really been hurt, at least not by an experienced opponent. Then his head was getting the best of him a little about then. He knows now this doesn't help you much when in trouble. There's a big difference between confidence and overconfidence."