Name another sport...

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by caneman, Oct 2, 2011.


  1. caneman

    caneman 100% AllNatural Xylocaine Full Member

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    I see your point. But multiple belts available from multiple boxing organizations have been around for a while as well. In fact, one of the best eras in boxing, the 1980s had most of the the major organizations that we consider legit belts today. You don't here that argument of yours belittling that era when comparing to the era of single weight titles.

    But it's done today in this era. Why is that?
     
  2. megavolt

    megavolt Constantly Shadowboxing Full Member

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    Michael Schumacher.
     
  3. Fighting Pride

    Fighting Pride Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It happens in football, argument that players are more protected today to belittle their achievements against those of the greats of the past, even though defensively and tactically teams have only gotten better. Happens in tennis too, some like to bring out how much harder it was with the smaller wooden racquets. So yeah, not so much based on opposition, but playing conditions of the time.
     
  4. purephase

    purephase Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    That's swell and all, but if the people you're talking to are relying on major count alone to compare eras, then they're pretty dumb. Most of the tour didn't even regularly play the Australian until the late 80s, so it's very easy for guys today to have comparatively inflated major counts. Beyond that, it doesn't even address the fact that simply taking the level of competition as constant across eras is an extremely weighty and often unjustified assumption.
     
  5. Vince Voltage

    Vince Voltage Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Some of it is just the musings of embittered old timers, talking about the good old days. Some of it is that boxing fans get too personally attached to their favorite fighters and hate to see them lose...in no other sport, except now UFC/MMA stuff, are competitors exposed in the way that fighters are. When your hero gets his ass kicked in, it's hard to see and people concoct excuses.
    I think each era is a bubble unto itself and comparing eras is usually pointless. Sure, Joe Louis made 20 defenses or something...maybe Mike Tyson would've knocked those guys out even earlier....but we'll never know. Maybe Ali isn't that good, because maybe Foreman and Frazier weren't that good, and maybe in another era they'd have been beaten. It's hard to picture, but we'll never know for sure. There's a futile chicken/egg thing that happens...Fighter A and Fighter B split two close fights...so they must be great! Well, who did Ali ever beat? Frazier. Well who the hell did Frazier beat? Ali.
     
  6. caneman

    caneman 100% AllNatural Xylocaine Full Member

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    Is there some kind of gauge in your opinion to measure the level of quality of competition between eras? Who's really to say tennis players back then or now are better than the other? In terms of athleticism and fitness, I'd say today's competition is better. In terms of pure tennis skill, that one is harder to gauge. IMO, that is why I can only judge each athlete in terms of what is available to them, meaning only judge them by their accomplishments against current competition. It's not really fair to tell a young current talent that he never had to face a prime Sampras so you're always going to be inferior in some people's eyes because of that.
     
  7. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    Bills won like 55 games without Jordan in 1994. In 1993 with him, they won 57 games. They lost to the Knicks in the semi-conference in a 7 games series in 1994. The year before they beat the Knicks in 6. A difference, but not a Godly difference.
     
  8. caneman

    caneman 100% AllNatural Xylocaine Full Member

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    I was comparing the Bulls after 1994 when their old core of rather good players started to retire or leave. The old Bulls had a good core of veteran players like Paxson, Grant, Armstrong.
     
  9. purephase

    purephase Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    There's no exact quantifiable way, but one can definitely pay attention to things like playing styles, surface variety, and the form of the guys at the very top. I can't think of anyone who would regard the current women's tour as somehow a step up in quality from years past, even in terms of fitness. This certainly should caution against narratives that portray each generation as an improvement over the previous one.
    That's fine and all, but what you're arguing for here then is that no comparison can ever really be made across eras, a distinctly different view than the idea that we can count up majors for overall tennis rankings or count up belts/wins/defenses to compare boxers. The former would suggest that we have no business ever saying anything about how guys from different generations would fare against each other or even whose resume is more impressive. This is certainly a defensible position, but it also takes a lot of the fun out of sports discussions. Such a view would also contradict your regular parading of the unprecedented nature of Pacquiao's accomplishments; obviously his wins only occurred in this particular era and so we can never really hold them up as indicating any superiority whatsoever against guys who came earlier and faced different competition.
     
  10. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    That's not quite as fair or the same then as the Bulls added Harper and Rodman to their team. Rodman defensively made them tougher, and gave them an undeniable impact on the boards.

    The Bull of 95-97 were better than any of the 90-93 as well. Jordan was a different player at this point. Probably not better, but a better team leader/player.