The thing is opinions are fine but it's very unlikely anyone is going to go undefeated vs that level of opposition it just isn't possible. Monzon has been badly hurt in a fight and had 2 very close decisions in his title reign. So as I said whilst he was a very consistent performed he wasn't unbeatable. A certain style from one of those fighters will catch him out, it doesn't make him any less great it's just being realistic no Middleweight in history would go undefeated vs those names.
Carlos Monzon at the time of his retirement as champion on August 29 1977 was 89-3-9, 61 KO's, undefeated in his last 82 bouts dating back to Oct 9 1964, Carlos defeated the three men who defeated him on points, eight of the nine men he drew against, the ninth refused to fight him.
I was taking them more on a case by case basis, where it's a different timeline for each fight and both men are in their primes, but if it were one after the other then yes, I can see Monzon dropping a couple decisions. I do think Hagler and Hopkins present the biggest problems, and SRR at his best at MW of course has a more than sizeable shot against any MW, while Nunn is a sticky (but I think winnable) night out. I don't think Monzon is wholly unbeatable but the only time he was ever really rocked in a 100 fight career was against Briscoe, a known big puncher, where he never tasted the canvas and still fought well afterwards using his survival instincts to hang in tough. His only close decisions were to Griffith, where he was still recovering from being shot in the shoulder and was suffering from hand issues, which isn't indicative at all of how Monzon performs at his peak, which we know because he beat and stopped the same Griffith with relative ease in their first fight when Monzon was fit and healthy. The Valdez fights were at the end of his career where he was quite clearly past his prime but still had enough left in the tank to pull out two decisions over one of the best contenders of his reign. We don't use Ali's past prime performances against Holmes and Berbick, or Patterson's performance against Ali in the first fight where he was riddled with back issues to judge how they would do in hypothetical matchups because the crux of hypotheticals are the prime vs prime aspect in most cases. He was just so effective and well-measured in the ring and was such a great all-rounder that it just makes me struggle to see really who has the tools to beat him when he is at his best. I think everyone you named creates issues for Monzon but he was so intelligent and capable that I only think Hagler and Hopkins have the hardware to flummox him for the full 15.
While I respect your opinion, King Carlos Monzon being hurt does not take anything away from him as a champion, it only enhances him as a fighter with a diamond chin as only Rodrigo Valdes was the only fighter to deck him and it was in his last title defense on July 30 1977 in Monte Carlo, Monaco. Carlos took a two count, and proceeded to punish Valdes throughout the 15 round fight to win a unanimous 15 round decision. So did many fighters or the ones that you mentioned retire undefeated or never lost their titles? Monzon retired with his World Middleweight Title after 14 successful title defenses and a nearly 7 year reign as champion including an 82 bout unbeaten streak dating back to Oct 9 1964. As I have posted in comparing Monzon's competition to others, a fighter or champion can only defend his title against the best possible challengers of his era, not challengers from the past or future. As a champion Monzon knew when it was time to leave the fight game regardless of his personal life, a great champion knows his own limitations. Monzon retired to the silver screen in his native Argentina when his career had ended, financially set for life as his management put money away for him during his lengthy career that began in Feb 1963. In his career, Monzon fought all types, runners, boxers, sluggers, as no man in infallible, he came close to it, having watched him fight since he won the title from Nino Benvenuti on Nov 7 1970 with a KO 12. Nunn and others mentioned lost their titles as champions, that includes Marvelous Marvin Hagler losing his title to a fighter that had been away for 3 and a half years, Sugar Ray Leonard on April 6 1987.
Good question,Dorrian. After some thought,I would put '"The Human Windmill" 4th in my all time great middleweight list.
Remember the title unification bout from Monte Carlo, Monaco when WBA Champion Carlos Monzon defeated WBC Champion Rodrigo Valdes on June 26 1976? In that bout King Carlos put Valdes on the deck in round 14 with a counter right hand to seal the unanimous 15 round decision plus the undisputed title.
It sure was remarkable how consistent and effective Monzon was even when entering his twilight. He would go out with grace and class, it's a shame he never lived the rest of his life with the same dedication and craft that he was able to put into the ring. I consider his win over Valdes one of his greatest, certainly one of his top 3 in his defences.
As I have previously mentioned, I was attending the Sugar Ray Leonard vs Daniel Gonzalez bout on March 24 1979 in my hometown, it was televised live on ABC's Wide World Of Sports that Saturday. Anyhow, as I was exiting the restroom on my way to buy a beer, I came face to face with Carlos Monzon, we both nodded up at each other as a sign of respect, he appeared on his way to exit the Community Center after being introduced to the crowd to a standing ovation. It sure was my highlight, later I attended a wedding reception of a friend of mine, I told of my near meeting experience with Monzon, I sure had an interested crowd around me that evening. In my opinion, the only fighter I feel that would have defeated Monzon would have been a prime Sugar Ray Robinson because of his speed, but it would have been a good fight though, as a matter of fact as Monzon was preparing for his May 1971 rematch with Nino Benvenuti in Monaco, there was talk of a sparring session with Robinson according to a French magazine as both shook hands with each other.
That is a very school story. I don't think I would have the composure or wherewithal to nod calmly with those cold eyes staring down at me, I probably would have been too shocked and would have just stared at him I imagine. I'm on the same page as you about Sugar Ray though, would certainly be one helluva fight. You seem like a very well-travelled man, if I may ask, what would you say was the strangest place you saw a live fight?
I don't think Briscoe was close to stopping him. No man is unbeatable,but perhaps Greb 's style would be the kryptonite for Monzon?
Greb sure would have given Monzon a look a different way of fighting. I get the feeling from what I've read as well as watching Greb's training footage, that he was one of the most adaptable fighters ever. If anyone could give Monzon a run for his money, it would be Harry.