Name lineal title opponents in ANY weight division worse than Alex Leapai

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Apr 26, 2014.


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  1. BOGART

    BOGART Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    What makes you think I've never seen Burman? There's footage of him out there, not a lot but some.

    As for the higher ranking, that doesn't make you a better fighter when going from one era to another. Pulev is the #1 contender and Norton wasn't even in the top 5 when he beat Ali, so Pulev is better than that Norton strictly on his ranking going by that logic.

    I think you're giving too much credit to beating a guy who was at one time a contedner even if they are no longer that fighter like you do with Ketchell and Risko.

    Those versions of the guys Burman was beating don't seem any better to me than guys like Boystov, Wilson, Walker, Beck, etc. Those guys may not have cracked the top 10, besides Boystov, but they weren't losing more than winning like the guys Burman was beating.

    Like I said, put Burman ahead of Leapai, thats fine(not sure I'd agree but thats alright) but if Leapai is going to be listed as an all-time poor lineal challenger than Burman isn't far off.
     
    BOGART, Apr 27, 2014
    BOGART, Apr 27, 2014
    #106
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yes, I did stick a question mark in there because it's possible. But it's interesting that you ask rather than tell.

    Have you seen him? IN a fight?

    Actually, it usually does, but yes, not always. But that's not the point, is it? If Wlad meets a #6 HW and thrashes him like that, he's extremely dominant. If he meets an unranked opponent and beats him like that, it's kind of embarrassing for everyone.

    It's also a fact that to get to #6 you normally have to prove yourself capable of defending yourself against some of the better men in your era. Being able to do that means that you can defend yourself against the best in your era, at least a bit - at least so you aren't in danger in the way Leapai clearly was.

    It's a question of safety as well as sporting competitiveness.

    Both men have proved themselves capable of defending themselves against excellent heavyweights - no problem here.

    But I would draw a distinction between elite and non-elite here. If you are elite - top ten or twelve - you're capable. If you're non-elite, that's different. I would say there is almost always a difference between elite and non-elite fighters. I would say unranked fighters that are not previously elite or elite prospects will not tend to measure up to the ranked men in another era.

    I'd pick any fighter ranked in the Ring or TBRB top 10 from the past twenty years to beat Leapai more often than not.

    Well that depends. I think compared to some of the men you have named, that is unquestionably not true. Burman beat better guys than Leapai, almost inarguably.

    Disagree - I think you've really low-balled him and I think his victory over Farr, alone, puts him way out of Leapai's reach in any way you want to make any comparison between the two of them. Farr would be a top 100 heavyweight of all time, Boytsov really wouldn't be, at all.
     
    McGrain, Apr 27, 2014
    McGrain, Apr 27, 2014
    #107
  3. BOGART

    BOGART Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Yeah, I've seen Burman in a fight. Not enough to be a Red Burman expert. He was a decent looking and average sized heavy(for his time).

    As far as Farr being a top 100 heavyweight, maybe ,that would require a lot of thought. Not too open a whole other subject but Farr was inconsistant and Burman got to him towards the end of his career. Farr had fought over 100 (lost 30 of them)fights by the time he was in his mid 20's not sure what he would have left at that point.

    Burman being ranked higher than Leapai and on the surface beating a top 10 guy carries more weight than a non top 10 guy. I just don't think Burman did much more than Leapai did coming into their title fights regardless of the ranking.

    Burman may have better looking names on his record than Leapai but seems to have gotten to them while they were well past their best and slipped into a gatekeeper or fringe contender type status at best.

    Leapai beat one contender and a few fringe guys himself. Not a lot seperates what the two did to get their shots.
     
    BOGART, Apr 27, 2014
    BOGART, Apr 27, 2014
    #108
  4. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    Over reaction thread, McGrain.

    The correct answer is Crawford Grimsely. Couldn't even last 30 seconds against Tuesday Night Fights gate keeper Jimmy Thunder. The ideal bum for Foreman to spar with.

    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdOcGobOD2Y[/url]


    In terms of just Wlad title opponents: Leapai actually lasted longer than Mormeck and Austin, and did about as bad as Thompson II, Pianeta, Brewster II, and Rahman.
     
    The Mongoose, Apr 27, 2014
    The Mongoose, Apr 27, 2014
    #109
  5. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    Pride of Belguim Coopman was pretty bad too. I would favor Leapai by knockout over him and Grimsely.


    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFmyKL6ah5k[/url]
     
    The Mongoose, Apr 27, 2014
    The Mongoose, Apr 27, 2014
    #110
  6. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    Leapai has two solid wins over Walker and Boystov.

    He's not much of a contender but certainly better than a Florida club fighter on the wrong side of a record knockout and Belguim's greatest and perhaps only fighter...

    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXJ44nQUuTs[/url]
     
    The Mongoose, Apr 27, 2014
    The Mongoose, Apr 27, 2014
    #111
  7. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    Galento was fat but he was a good fighter. He had great power, great chin, could bob and weave well enough, and surprisingly solid stamina. Knocked out several contenders.
     
    The Mongoose, Apr 27, 2014
    The Mongoose, Apr 27, 2014
    #112
  8. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Jamoye is far better than Coopman ever was, Mongoose. :deal

    Grimsley wasn't great, and I could see Leapai doing a 13 second number on him...if he connected. Then again, if Crawford survived the opening seconds, he proved himself to be capable of throwing punches in a more compact, technically correct fashion even when being cuffed around by Big George.

    Judgement call as to whom was worse, really.
     
    Drew101, Apr 27, 2014
    Drew101, Apr 27, 2014
    #113
  9. IvyLeagueBoxing

    IvyLeagueBoxing Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Shumenov
     
    IvyLeagueBoxing, Apr 27, 2014
    IvyLeagueBoxing, Apr 27, 2014
    #114
  10. Peril

    Peril The Scholar Full Member

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    this is hard question, given how few people actually have been lineal undisputed hw champs, or any other weight for that matter. To get to Leapai, he had to go through Povetkin, Haye and Thompson -the destroyer of brits. I'd say thats a well deserved relaxation fight, easy money so to speak, kinda like what Pac did against Diaz, May did against Bruselis/Hatton, Hopkins against Murat etc.
     
    Peril, Apr 27, 2014
    Peril, Apr 27, 2014
    #115
  11. Peril

    Peril The Scholar Full Member

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    Walker got blatantly robbed with that stoppage. It was so bad, even a british referee would look at it and go "That's not right".
     
    Peril, Apr 27, 2014
    Peril, Apr 27, 2014
    #116
  12. JAB5239

    JAB5239 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    A ridiculously bad stoppage.
     
    JAB5239, Apr 27, 2014
    JAB5239, Apr 27, 2014
    #117
  13. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    Probably so but Walker was out of gas and defenseless regardless.
     
    The Mongoose, Apr 28, 2014
    The Mongoose, Apr 28, 2014
    #118
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    What's the fight? Is it Farr II?

    Well it did, and he made it...but he's not a lock or anything, I reckon you could have him as low as, say, 120-130ish without being ridiculous.

    Still, it's impossible to stress, regardless of how inconsistent he was, just how far in advance he is of anyone that Leapai has even lost to (Wlad aside).

    Well, rest yourself easy. He had enough to extend Joe Louis fifteen rounds the year before, extend Max Baer fifteen the year before, come out on the wrong side of a close decision with Jim Braddock the year before, and beat Larry Gains after. I mean he probably wasn't primed, but it's inarguably a good win for Burman.

    We're going round in circles a bit and I understand why you want to be negative about Burman in this context, but again, if Burman was ranked higher, beat higher ranked men, beat better men era-on-era inarguably, probably beat better men full stop, what's the argument for nominating Burman as a weaker defence? What argument exists?


    Nah, it's just an invitation, and supposed to be some fun. The over-reaction is in the reaction.
     
    McGrain, Apr 28, 2014
    McGrain, Apr 28, 2014
    #119
  15. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    Still would favor Leapai. I think Boystov was better than Crawford, just awful fighter.

    Yeah, this is scraping for nuggets at the bottom of the toliet.
     
    The Mongoose, Apr 28, 2014
    The Mongoose, Apr 28, 2014
    #120
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