Name me a 190lber who could beat Tunney.

I think a guy like Evander when he was a cruiserweight would have had a bit too much in the strength department for Tunney, he had a great science to his game i agree (Tunney) but in some part of the fight he would have been pressured to trade with Holyfield and may have come off second best.. That i add is a Holyfield from 1986 / 87..

 

I would favour a prime Dempsey, Charles, Moore, Conn, Loughran, Holyfield, Marciano and Harold Johnson. Jersey Joe weighed 192 or so in his prime if he counts then him too.

 

FRom 1919 Wills was the only real threat to Dempsey I think.Godfrey was kod 5times between 19 and 23, the last time by Jack Renault,who would have been out matched by Dempsey , From 1923 to 26,the rest of Dempsey's reign Godfrey was beaten 7 times ,the last one by Sharkey,whom Dempsey kod and near that time by Larry Gains ,like Godfrey a Dempsey sparring partner.In fairness to Dempsey he did state he was willing to fight Tiger Flowers

 

There is much to be said on this point:

The back and triceps are the muscles that project punches, not so much the biceps and chest, and Tunney was built exactly like the theory.

Tunney did not look like a brute, but he could bust you up just the same.

With Tunney's straight shots, dictating footwork, strength in clinches and general resolve he would be a strong bet to defeat the vast majority of fighters that weigh around 190lbs.

He was a complete package.

 

Sice you are basing your argument on the wins over Dempsey we have to guage what stage he was at when Tunney beat him.

He had been inactive for three years and many observers had comented on the decline in his prowes even before the fight. After the Tunney fights he thought about atempting a comeback but thought better of it after being handeled in an exhibition by King Levinsky.

Between the two Tunney fights he beat Jack Sharkey and make no mistake about it Sharkey was a handfull for anybody when he was on his A game.

I would say that at the time of the second fight Dempsey was at the same sort of level as a prime Jack Sharkey or sombody like Max Schmeling. That is to say that if he fought them at this stage he would be even money. So still not the kind of fighter that should be dominated in that manner. I also think that even at this stage he would have wrecked anybody who went toe to toe with him like Paulino Uzcdun.

 

Tunney said Jack was a lot sharper in the second fight.Greb and Loughran handled Jack in sparring for the first Tunney fight ,and Greb had a bet ,and told everybody who would listen that Gene would beat Jack .

 

Jack Johnson - stronger, faster hands, fought in a similar style, more proven, both excellent defensively, Johnson takes it

Ezzard Charles - Charles is faster, technically better, far better puncher, movement both are good. Tunney has low hands making him easy to hit once hes close down and charles was 1 of the greatest boxer punchers who could destroy his man. Charles mid rounds KO

Archie Moore - much more proven and tested fighter, see this as a close 1, Moore is technically better and a superior puncher, Tunney has the better footwork, both great timing

Roy Jones - Jones would land on Tunney easily, easily beating him to the punch, I see Jones winning every round against Tunney, hes just a far superior boxer and athlete

James Toney - Toney is just a technically superior better boxer at 190, Tunney is a better mover but Toney far slicker. Its a close call

David Haye - just a monster hitter at 190, fast, great timing and good at keeping distance. People give Haye a 50-50 against Wlad, no one would give Tunney a cat in hells chance against Wladdy

Prime Dempsey - faster, better workrate, faster feet, Dempsey gets to him at some stage and puts him away

Marciano - Marciano would just walk down and break Tunney down and KO him down the stretch, Tunney takes the early rounds but he isn't in the league of Charles who lost

M Spinks - Spinks times some big hooks and rights to make the difference.

Patterson - Patterson would dominate Tunney, too fast, skilled and dynamic. A hands down style against Patterson while being weaker at the weight, no contest, Patterson by KO

Bob Foster - underrated boxer, devastating puncher, couldn't compete against Ali/Frazier but Tunney isn't either in their league or their size

Qawi - anyone who presses Holy close can do the same to Tunney

Calzaghe - its likely greb was similar to Joe, but Joes bigger and maybe even better. Calzaghe beating Tunney is certainly possible, a close contest here though

Langford - better puncher, more proven, better wins

Bivins - fought at a far higher level than Dempsey, the dominant Murderers Row fighter, big puncher, strong with better wins

Mike Moorer - very skilled, excellent jab and 1 of the best southpaw straight left that could put a mans lights out, that would hit any fighter who kept his hands low, tunney is no exception

 

If Tunney was such as bad ass HW why did he duck most the top10? Tunney is less proven at HW than Spinks

 

Dempsey fought in an era when most of the top heavyweights were white.

A better analogy would be if Ali had fought Frazier, Foreman, Norton, Lyle and Young but drawn the colour line against Mildenberger, Cooper, Vincente Rondon, John Conteh, and Chris Finnegan.

That is of course without Harry Wills

 

Because he was smart.

He was in it for the money and he took the path of least resistance.

When he beat Dempsey I dont think there was anybody around who could have taken him.

 

You paint a picture that allows you to keep loving your hero, but it is not a very realistic one.

First of all, the "this is without Harry Wills" is not just a little detail, it's the LONGEST ducking job in the history of the sport (any weightclass!) against a top15 heavyweight!

Second, Langford and Jeanette were still among the top10 best heavyweights during the second half of the 1910's and Dempsey wanted no part of them. Brennan, Miske, Firpo, Gibbons and Carpentier were a very poor bunch when he fought them and half of them weren't even heavyweights!

 

Tunney is easy to hit ? Yet he was only down once ,from an atg puncher and never kod,strange that?