Name Me a ATG with a weaker resume than RJJ?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Bomber, Nov 10, 2008.

  1. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    Stick Robin Reid and Richie Woodhall into that first list, and that's my point.
     
  2. 2ironmt

    2ironmt Boxing Addict Full Member

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  3. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    Never!
     
  4. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Monzon's reign:

    Two wins over Rodrigo Valdez, the best MW of the era outside of Monzon, the Esteban Dejesus of the MW division, considering he was unable to make his mark fully felt due to the quality of the fighter ranking ahead of him.

    Multiple wins over Philly legend Bennie Briscoe.

    Napoles is an ATG as well, problem being he was a WW and far too small.

    Guys like Tonna, Licata, Mundine, Bouttier, Bogs, etc were all very good MW wins around that time, though they were no greats. Denny Moyer had been a staple of the MW division for years and was another quality win. Not to mention early career wins over Jorge Jose Fernandez.

    And of course the two dominating wins over Benvenuti. I agree with you that he was no ATG, but he was a very good fighter nonetheless.

    That is a stacked resume, and when you take into account he beat everyone he ever fought and never lost outside of early career decisions, Monzon's career is legendary. One of the most dominant champions of al time.
     
  5. rydersonthestorm

    rydersonthestorm Boxing Addict Full Member

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    i agree but in the case of graham he has a massive flaw that stopped him joining the ranks of the great fighters, reid on the other hand was better than the 4 bum champs listed and was a very solid if not spectacular fighter.
     
  6. rydersonthestorm

    rydersonthestorm Boxing Addict Full Member

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    the point is reid wouldn't be in that list
     
  7. Pimp C

    Pimp C Too Much Motion Full Member

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    Delete
     
  8. chimba

    chimba Off the Somali Coast Full Member

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    How the hell can you make that conclusion?? How do you determine the quality of these B+/B/C level fighters? For arguments sake lets agree that non elite level opposition are all the same for everyone.

    Only way to do this is to extract the "Elite/ATG" opponents and go from there..

    With Roy vs. Monzon

    Roys got Toney, BHOP, Tito (shot)
    Carlos got Jose, Nino, Emile (shot)

    Ill give the edge to Roy...on Resume, not Title reign, title defenses, h2h, etc etc
     
  9. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    Don't you even consider the strength in depth of a resume? The general standard? If you don't, then Oscar De La Hoya has a poor resume. He lost most of his big fights. However, this would be wrong. Because the geneal standard of fighter Oscar fought was high, giving him a strong resume rich in good competition over a sustained period.
     
  10. chimba

    chimba Off the Somali Coast Full Member

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    Yes I do...Roys got an incredibly underrated resume, in hindsight it is because he was so freakin dominant. How many future World champs did RJJ beat?? I can't count but Im sure its an astounding number...Age being not a factor? since everyone has fought a shot fighter one time or another...How many ATGs, How many HOFs, How many former or future champs have Roy faced? In any case if you look at it this way Roys resume stacks up with anyone.
     
  11. chimba

    chimba Off the Somali Coast Full Member

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    Im sure these are great fighters, I wont dispute that you know your old school guys but..I can just as make a counter that Jones fought in 4 different weight classes and won the belt in all of them. Doesnt that count for resume?

    Ill match the Briscoe win with Tarver 1 win, tough diffucult wins

    Ill Match the Napoles win with the McCallum(old but still tough) win

    Benvenuti win with the Toney win which I think give the edge to Roy

    Monzon was dominant and defended more but I will argue that Roy defended more dominantly..

    Roy fought more future World champs, woods, Ruiz, malinga, lucas, hill..with Hill and Ruiz possible HOF
     
  12. majinjohn

    majinjohn Member Full Member

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    Roy's got a good resume in my opinion, victories over Toney and Hopkins are really great wins and hes got some other good wins aswell. For the most part he completely dominated everyone he ever fought before the age of 36, which says a lot.
     
  13. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    Come on now mate, I am a massive RJJ fan, but his resume does not stack up with anyones, of couse it doesn't, you're being silly.

    Monzon's resume is stronger, I won't bother regurgitating everything Pea has already said in support of this as he knows more on the subject than me.
     
  14. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Bowe
    Holyfield
    Tyson
    Klitschko
    Ruddock
    Tua

    15 world title defences.

    Sure, Lewis has a weak resume...

    P.S. Jones isn't rated so highly because of a great resume. It's because he utterly dominated against his opposition. But as we saw from Tyson and young George Foreman, totally dominating decent opposition is no real guide to how you will fare against the best of the best. Still, Roy owned Toney and Hopkins, and every other far inferior fighter until he got old. NO ONE has ever gone against multiple hall of famers in their prime and beaten them consistently. Roy did pretty damn good until his late 30s.
     
  15. rydersonthestorm

    rydersonthestorm Boxing Addict Full Member

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    he only foguht bowe in the ams