Name one elite fighter who has moved up more weight and won a title then RJJ

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Sage, Jul 2, 2008.


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  1. Sage

    Sage Active Member Full Member

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    Reluctant roy, where to begin.




    Obviously the monkier stemmed from a combination of both real and percieved reluctance by roy to chase big fights in order to cement and secure legacy and greatness.


    Generally, the fighters in question that he had a deemed relucatance to fight were typically Darius, Collins, Benn and Eubank.


    Some were roys fault, some he certainly could have done more to persue the fight, some were not.


    Lets face relatity: Any objective RJJ fan should freely admit that RJJ was more business man then boxer, always was, always has been IMO.



    He wanted the cash, and often he went the $$ option over the fights the fans wanted, and thus, reluctant roy was born.


    But IMO that comes with the territory, we always seem to expect and demand more of great fighters.



    For example, i remember when Roy beat Ruiz people were saying that even if he had beaten Lennox at heavyweight people wouldn't make him P4P #1 of all time, what more could he have done? As I said, it is typical that we expect and demand more of the greats.



    IMO Roy certainly should have done more in regards to persuing fights with Collins, Benn, and Eubank. Benn in particular IMO because it would seem he had the greatest willingness to fight on US soil.


    I think both parties were responsible for the Darius fight not going down though. At any rate, roy could often be difficult to negotiate it would seem.



    The ruiz fight was much the same in terms of negotions, with roy playing hard ball. But none the less, the fight was still made and he still won.



    A reluctance? sure, but a victory none the less



    Without doubt roy could have done more over the years to enhance his career, particularly from a fans and historical perspective.





    But lacking balls? That is ridiculous IMO





    As I said as a counter example, if any other fighter moved up that much weight and beat the worst title holder around we would most likely be falling all over ourselves to offer praise. They would be commended for their heart, courarge, and balls.



    I'm not even taking into account how much Ruiz outweight roy on fight night either.



    Your point about reluctant roy is somewhat valid, i do concur. But to state he has no balls i think is largely unfounded






    Sage
     
    Sage, Jul 2, 2008
    Sage, Jul 2, 2008
    #16
  2. ayala

    ayala Boxing Addict Full Member

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    i dont think ruiz is weak he is just boring and roy picked him cause he was tailor made for him
     
    ayala, Jul 2, 2008
    ayala, Jul 2, 2008
    #17
  3. bxrfan

    bxrfan Sizzle Full Member

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    Lol, at the part where you say only 28 pounds, which is something very few fighters could do.
     
    bxrfan, Jul 2, 2008
    bxrfan, Jul 2, 2008
    #18
  4. El Borracho

    El Borracho Boxing Addict Full Member

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    bingo
     
    El Borracho, Jul 2, 2008
    El Borracho, Jul 2, 2008
    #19
  5. thesandman

    thesandman Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I was talking about in comparison to the 43 pounds mentioned as being done by RJJ. Not the fact that it's not a great achievement.

    The fact there was only 2 ABC belts at the time, and the guys he fought to do so are completely different (but extremely important) arguments.

    Winning welter, super welter, Middle and light heavy titles?? Man, that's an awesome achievement. (and no doubt he'd have won super middle if it had been around during his whole career).

    I think he could have won the cruiser at the time too, as it was lightly regarded and didn't have great champions.
     
    thesandman, Jul 2, 2008
    thesandman, Jul 2, 2008
    #20
  6. Scar

    Scar VIP Member Full Member

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    He picked Glen Johnson after the loss to Tarver as a tune-up stay active fight, nothing confusing there. If anything it was Roy who gave the man a shot when Calzaghe continued to duck and fight bartenders in Wales. If there is someone that needs a thread for having endless bums on his record then it's Calzaghe, not Roy.
     
    Scar, Jul 2, 2008
    Scar, Jul 2, 2008
    #21
  7. bxrfan

    bxrfan Sizzle Full Member

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    I think you misunderstood me, I agreed to everything you said. I'm just laughing at that statement being said as if the acheivement was nothing.
     
    bxrfan, Jul 2, 2008
    bxrfan, Jul 2, 2008
    #22
  8. Guitarman

    Guitarman Member Full Member

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    Hell of an achievement, IMO
     
    Guitarman, Jul 2, 2008
    Guitarman, Jul 2, 2008
    #23
  9. maximumsg

    maximumsg Active Member Full Member

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    Delahoya mayweather morales are all little men. They fight little guys roy is not a little guy he losses weight to fight at 175. he got up to 205 solid rock in a few months, so comparing smaller men that could never compete against average size guys is illrelivent. Roy beatina a slow hugging guy is great on paper until you watch all of his fights.
     
    maximumsg, Jul 2, 2008
    maximumsg, Jul 2, 2008
    #24
  10. JabCross727

    JabCross727 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    How about Sugar Ray Leonard?
     
    JabCross727, Jul 2, 2008
    JabCross727, Jul 2, 2008
    #25
  11. Lance_Uppercut

    Lance_Uppercut ESKIMO Full Member

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    Excellent comparison! :thumbsup
     
    Lance_Uppercut, Jul 2, 2008
    Lance_Uppercut, Jul 2, 2008
    #26
  12. Brickhaus

    Brickhaus Packs the house Full Member

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    You have to use body percentage increases to get there, not total weight gained. A pound of difference is much greater in the smaller weight classes, which is why they're bunched together.

    For instance, Pac moving from 106 to beat Diaz is pretty comparable to Jones beating Ruiz. Both increased their weight by about 1/3 to get there.
     
    Brickhaus, Jul 2, 2008
    Brickhaus, Jul 2, 2008
    #27
  13. Hatesrats

    Hatesrats "I'm NOT Suprised..." Full Member

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    It'a all about overall % [bottomline]
    (But just for ****'s & Giggles here is couple other's who liked to move up)

    Thomas Hearns: 147, 154, 175, 160, 168 = 21lbs
    Sugar Ray Leonard: 147, 154, 160, 168 & 175 = 28lbs
    Roberto Durán: 135, 147, 154, 160 = 25lbs
    Oscar De La Hoya: 130, 135, 140, 147, 154 & 160 = 30lbs
    Floyd Mayweather, Jr.: 130,135, 140, 147 & 154 = 24lbs
    Manny Pacquiao: 112, 122, 126, 130 & 135 = 23lbs

    No Roids?
     
    Hatesrats, Jul 2, 2008
    Hatesrats, Jul 2, 2008
    #28
  14. Brickhaus

    Brickhaus Packs the house Full Member

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    Why aren't you counting Duran at 118, or Pac at 106? Those are the weights they started at. If you're going to count Jones at 154, you need to count Duran at 118.
     
    Brickhaus, Jul 2, 2008
    Brickhaus, Jul 2, 2008
    #29
  15. Brickhaus

    Brickhaus Packs the house Full Member

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    Why aren't you counting Duran at 118, or Pac at 106? Those are the weights they started at. If you're going to count Jones at 154, you need to count Duran at 118.
     
    Brickhaus, Jul 2, 2008
    Brickhaus, Jul 2, 2008
    #30
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