Name some prime top 10 heavyweights that Anthony Joshua has defeated

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Slyk, Jan 11, 2024.


  1. AdamT

    AdamT Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Whyte wasn't prime or top 10 when Aj beat him. Wallin wasn't top 10 when Fury beat him
     
  2. KINGWILDER

    KINGWILDER Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Don’t mention Martin, that guy was and has always been absolute pants.
     
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  3. BlackDog

    BlackDog Active Member Full Member

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    Pay more attention to the posts you read.
    That's one.
    Second is fact that Otto Wallin was on number 10 in the ring magazine rating when he faced Joshua. Correct me if Im wrong.
     
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  4. KINGWILDER

    KINGWILDER Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I would hardly call Breazeale, Martin, or Takam top 10 (or 15) guys, they have simply never belonged there.

    Joshua’s actual top 10/15 wins are against Otto Wallin, Wladimir Klitschko, Dillian Whyte, Joseph Parker, Kubrat Pulev, Alexander Povetkin, and Andy Ruiz Jr. His resume is very solid but I still rate Fury’s wins over Klitschko, Wilder twice (should be 3), Whyte, and Wallin as higher. Plus the lack of Ls really makes a difference.
     
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  5. BubblesUK

    BubblesUK Doesn't buy hypejobs Full Member

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    Wlad definitely...
    Ortiz is questionable - his resume leaves it highly debatable if he was ever a top 5 fighter. By the time he fought Wilder it getting on for 2.5 years since his best win, against Jennings (who himself wasn't all that special, really).
     
  6. northpaw

    northpaw Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    "Ranked in the top 10", I'm pretty certain they both still were at the time Joshua beat them. Regarding prime that's another matter but everybody at HW is "old" except Parker, so age doesn't mean as much as say at LW or FW
     
  7. Mickc

    Mickc Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Ruiz jnr was ranked 11 by the WBA 15 by the IBF when he stepped in to fight Joshua after the Miller fiasco with the 20-1 under dog winning by stoppage in the seventh round .
     
  8. Slyk

    Slyk Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    This is exactly why I maintain that he was NOT a top 10 fighter in the rematch. He's the same rank 11 or 15 guy MINUS the hunger and PLUS 25lbs, making him a complacent lardo.
     
  9. KINGWILDER

    KINGWILDER Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I agree although I think between 2015-2018 Ortiz had shown world class ability and had pushed himself into the conversation for the top 8-4 ranked guys. His lack of quality opposition outside Jennings does make it hard to judge how good he truly was. He still gave Wilder a lot of trouble.
     
  10. BubblesUK

    BubblesUK Doesn't buy hypejobs Full Member

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    Hmm....

    For me it's not possible to show world class ability without world class opponents - and the only one that's even debatable there for Ortiz is Wilder himself.

    And of course giving Wilder trouble can't rank him up there on its own when Wilders rank would have to rely on Ortiz.

    It's entirely possible that Wilder should've been ranked more like 4-6 (behind AJ, Povetkin, Parker and maybe even a couple more, Whyte etc)... Without Wilder being ranked 2-3, I can't see much reason to rank Ortiz higher than a fringe top 10, and even then I'm being slightly generous on the basis of slickness against mediocre opponents.
     
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  11. senpai

    senpai Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Povetkin might be the best boxer name that he beat, but when ? You have to take into consideration fighters age and condition. Name itself means nothing.
     
  12. ikrasevic

    ikrasevic Who is ready to suffer for Christ (the truth)? Full Member

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  13. Finkel

    Finkel Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Joshua: Parker, Takam, Ruiz Jr.*, Wallin
    Fury: Chisora, Wilder 2, Wilder 3*
    Usyk: Joshua 1*, Joshua 2*
    Helenius: Chisora, Kownacki
    Ruiz Jr.: Joshua
    Whyte: Parker
    Joyce: Parker
    Wilder: Stiverne
    Ortiz: Jennings
    Martin: Glazkov

    * I guess some might want to argue they were no longer "prime" either through rapid weight gain, loss of confidence, or prior beat downs
     
  14. lordlosh

    lordlosh Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    I don't care what you can call for real. Again everyone can have whatever fantasy they would like.
    Plenty of people can have this or that guy in their top 10. Everyone can have different view, so how exactly we are suppose to make a case?

    The only case we can make is looking at the rankings and the fighters status.
    You don't judge a fighter 2-3 years later when someone fought him. You are judging at him, at the time the fight is happen.

    At the time AJ fought Martin, he was World Champion, won the belt against unbeaten fighter, that was ranked highly by some of here, back in the day > Vyacheslav Glazkov.
    And yeah it was injury, but so what?

    I never rated Martin or Breazele as a top contenders, but both were unbeaten when AJ fought them, and Martin was a Champion, and both were in the top 10.
    Takam was a late replacement for Pulev, just to be clear.

    Next you are showing your obvious bias, claiming that Fury should have 3x wins over Wilder, which i completely disagree, but you somehow forget to mention that Fury clearly lost to John McDermott. Wallin fight should have been TKO win for Wallin by all means. And Ngannou should have won that fight by any rules written in the book, not even including the blatant corruption of blatant obvious intentional elbow + a blatant obvious not given second KD for Ngannou.

    And how the hell just getting KOed by 40+ years old shot to s**** Povetkin, Whyte was a better win for Fury, when he already had 2 loses on his record + his chin and durability was already glass level, a better win compare to Whyte, who was unbeaten when faces AJ, and still has his virginity, aka chin/durability?

    And how the heck Wallin was a better win for Fury, when that should have been a loss, and Wallin also clearly hurt Fury in the 12 round, and won that round, as well as others as well ? Wallin was outside of top 50 in the rankings when Fury faces him, a clear cherry-pick.

    If you are making a case for 39,7 years old Klitschko being fresher for Fury, than for AJ > fine. And then claim that Klitschko was inactive for the AJ > fine. But also give the reason for Klitschko inactivity. Was it that he was just inactive, or someone ducked the rematch ?

    It's fun that you always seems to find that excuse for Fury, but not for others.
     
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  15. KINGWILDER

    KINGWILDER Well-Known Member Full Member

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    You have made a lot of points so I’m going to try to make my answer as easy to follow as possible:

    1. You make the case by looking into their wins and how they actually look in the ring. Breazeale and Martin have always been average fighters even when they were undefeated. Breazeale struggled with a 40+ year old Mansour prior to fighting AJ and looked extremely average. Takam was a late replacement, that doesn’t magically make him a top 10 guy though.

    2. When reflecting on how good wins are, what these guys did following is also very important. Neither of those 3 went on to be more than d/c level/gate keeper level guys. It’s like saying Wilder’s first win over Stiverne was a legit win over a top 5 guy. The rankings mean little and Stiverne has simply never been a top heavyweight. Outside of wins over Arreola, he lost every single big fight he was put in, and emphatically so.

    3. As for Fury I’ve been highly critical of him on here consistently. That being said Fury has had an excellent career and despite his recent antics, which has been a joke, he’s had some very good performances which have put him at the summit of the division (alongside Usyk).

    Fury lost to McDermott, that was years ago and is really not entirely that relevant. Plenty of great fighters like Hopkins lost fights early in their career, it happens. As for the first Wilder fight, most felt it was a robbery and Fury had clearly done enough to win. The 115-111 scorecard was a disgrace. Considering this was also a comeback fight for him as well, it was an excellent showing and a brilliant display of defence from Fury.

    The Ngannou fight was a disgrace but again, I’ve said that countless times on here and I don’t think it completely ruins the legacy of Fury who still has an excellent body of work. However I don’t discount it completely, and I think Fury has been vastly overrated especially when it comes to head to head fantasy fights and excusing him fighting other top contenders (who may further expose his vulnerabilities).

    Wallin was not ranked but he was never a joke. He’s always been a solid guy and he did well against Fury. The fight could have been stopped, but it wasn’t and Fury largely won most of the rounds.

    Joshua’s performances against him was far superior, that is simply without question and imo he beat a better version of Wallin. Then again, as you say, I think Fury’s win over a fresher more active Wlad was better than AJ’s, and that’s both of their respective career best wins.

    As for Whyte, sure he looked rubbish against Fury but I don’t think he was completely and utterly shot after two KOs. Many have argued Wilder was not utterly shot against Parker after two big KO defeats against Fury. I think Fury just exploited his obvious weakness (uppercuts), nothing wrong with that.

    I think you misunderstood my post anyway, I was saying Fury’s overall body of work including his lack of an L is better than AJ’s. I simply was not saying his wins over Whyte and Wallin were better than AJ’s (I think quite the opposite). Losing twice to Usyk and getting stopped by the, in my books massively overrated Andy Ruiz, holds back AJ’s resume. I rate Fury’s wins over Wilder and Klitschko as better than any of Joshua’s wins also.

    4. The last part is just hilarious considering how critical I’ve been over Fury. It seems that you cannot agree with anyone who has anything positive to say about the man. Nothing wrong with disliking a fighter, but try not to be biased and agenda fuelled when looking at fighters’ careers. Objectively, AJ, Wilder, Fury, and Usyk have all had excellent careers and have been world class heavyweights. I’m critical of all of them (Usyk less so than the others and Wilder more so) in some departments, but I will never not acknowledge they’ve all had highly successful and decorated careers at the end of the day.
     
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