Name the best non-ATG heavyweight from each decade

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by themostoverrated, Dec 25, 2022.


  1. spravedlivylev

    spravedlivylev Haaaappy Neeeew Yeeeear! banned Full Member

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    Others already pointed out Tyson. But how is Usyk not a great of this era? He became the unified HW champion of the world in his third HW bout and successfully defended his belts too. How is that comparable to a Byrd or a Moorer?
     
  2. slash

    slash Boxing Addict Full Member

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    And Holyfield in the 90's, from some other guy. Don't be ridiculous.
     
  3. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It opens up a more interesting question: How many ATG fighters have there been at heavyweight, or any other weight class?

    Is it a top 10, top 20, top 50 … where is that line (at least roughly)? I’d say that varies for each of us, and it’s perfectly reasonable for someone who doesn’t have Tyson rated in the top 10 or so to not include him as an ATG depending on where their standards are for that designation.
     
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  4. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I said ATG is subjective and so excluded my top 12 all time at HW. Holyfield is my #15. Who are your top non ATG HWs for each decade?
     
  5. themostoverrated

    themostoverrated Active Member Full Member

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    Usyk is definitely a great of this era. However, the expansion of ATG is ALL-TIME great. Has Usyk done enough to secure himself a position among all-time greats at heavyweight? I would say not yet. Much depends on Usyk's career trajectory. If Usyk goes on to lose to Fury, Wilder and let us say Joe Joyce and never holds a heavyweight strap again and if Joshua achieves nothing of significance henceforth, would Usyk be listed among the best of the best?
     
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  6. spravedlivylev

    spravedlivylev Haaaappy Neeeew Yeeeear! banned Full Member

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    Becoming a unified heavyweight champion of the world in only three bouts as an HW is ATG material, yes. We can argue about where exactly he can be ranked as an ATG if he was to finish his career now but he has already achieved something truly remarkable. How many fighters have become unified champions in the division faster than him?
     
  7. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    How many fighters in history do people deem to be ATGs? 10-12 in each of the original 8 weight divisions, plus a few whose greatness was spread over multiple weight divisions (e.g. Fitzsimmons, Langford) and maybe a few from later weight divisions (e.g. Wilfredo Gomez) and you're soon at c.100+.

    Or do others have vastly different interpretation to me and consider a few/several hundred fighters as ATGs?
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2022
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  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Just at heavyweight:

    1880s: Peter Jackson
    1890s: Bob Fitzsimmons
    1910s: Joe Jeanette
    1920s: Gene Tunney
    1930s: Max Schmeling
    1940s: Ezzard Charles
    1950s: Ezzard Charles
    1960s: Floyd Patterson
    1970s: Ken Norton
    1980s: Michael Spinks
    1990s: Riddick Bowe
    2000s: Vitali Klitschko
    2010s: Vitali Klitschko
    2020s: Oleksandr Usyk
     
  9. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Where does Uysk rank in your list of all time HWs, based on HW resume only?
     
  10. spravedlivylev

    spravedlivylev Haaaappy Neeeew Yeeeear! banned Full Member

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    Somewhere around the top 20-25 as of now. This could go higher (or lower) depending on how he fares from here, but if he retired today, I'd say he is around that spot.
     
  11. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Thanks. Your criteria is your own, of course, but theres no way someone whose entire HW resume consists of AJ x 2, Chisora and Chazz Withersooon ranks top 25 all time in the HW division, if quality and depth of wins is key to the ranking (I think Uysk is a wonderful boxer btw, no. 1 pfp today).

    Even if he was 25, you consider him an ATG at HW, so assuming no weight division bias that's c.200 x ATG boxers from the traditional 8 weight divisions, plus those from the newer divisions. ATG is a subjective term, so there are virtually no right or wrong answers, within reason, but that many doesnt meet my interpretation of the term "all time great".
     
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  12. themostoverrated

    themostoverrated Active Member Full Member

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    In my opinion, becoming an ATG is something beyond achieving a noteworthy distinction, no matter how important that distinction is. Michael Spinks for example won a heavyweight title on his debut at that division and then went on to defend that title. This does not automatically make him an ATG at heavyweight (again in my opinion). Sure, Usyk became a unified champion, but he did not have to unify his titles - they were already unified by the man whom he beat. If Larry Holmes had unified the IBF title with say the WBC title - would that have necessitated an extra effort from Spinks to beat him? I would argue not.

    As @Greg Price99 said, ATG is a subjective criterion. Since you rate Usyk in the top 20-25 bracket and still consider him as an ATG, your list of ATGs (at heavyweight) has 20 or more names. Mine does not (Tyson is in my top 20 list btw).
     
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