Naoya Inoue is the Only Elite Fighter Knocking Out Other Elite Fighters

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by JunlongXiFan, Jul 28, 2023.


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  1. JunlongXiFan

    JunlongXiFan 45-6 in Kirks Chmpionshp Boxing Predictions 2022 Full Member

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    122 has 1300 pro fighters, and 118 has 1100 fighters. HW has 1300 pros and 200 has 1000 pros. Has Usyk fought elite fighters, or did that size talent pool prohibit him? Remember that Inoue also beat #1 at 115 and held a title at 108.
     
    JunlongXiFan, Jul 28, 2023
    JunlongXiFan, Jul 28, 2023
    #16
  2. JunlongXiFan

    JunlongXiFan 45-6 in Kirks Chmpionshp Boxing Predictions 2022 Full Member

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    Loma hasn't stopped any elite fighters in the weight class he fought them in. He didn't stop GARjr, Haney, or Teo. He has stopped contenders but no elite fighters.

    And I feel bad for those fighters, but we can't give them sympathy points for not getting fights. They simply haven't achieved it. Inoue's opponent's talent pool has been much larger than a career 175ers all together.
     
    JunlongXiFan, Jul 28, 2023
    JunlongXiFan, Jul 28, 2023
    #17
  3. Redbeard7

    Redbeard7 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    "Loma hasn't stopped any elite fighters in the weight class he fought them in"

    So we're adding in another criteria.

    And how does it square with "regularly?"
     
    Redbeard7, Jul 28, 2023
    Redbeard7, Jul 28, 2023
    #18
  4. ButeTheBeast

    ButeTheBeast Well-Known Member Full Member

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    147-160 is where the cream of the crop fight.

    Ray Robinson
    Mayweather
    Duran
    Leonard
    Hagler
    Hearns
    Greb
    Crawford
    Spence
    Pacquiao
     
    ButeTheBeast, Jul 28, 2023
    ButeTheBeast, Jul 28, 2023
    #19
  5. Redbeard7

    Redbeard7 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    8 Americans, what a shocker. Not bad for a nation with 4% of the global population, in a world where most average size athletic men play soccer if anything.
     
    Redbeard7, Jul 28, 2023
    Redbeard7, Jul 28, 2023
    #20
    JunlongXiFan likes this.
  6. DirtyDan

    DirtyDan Worst Poster of 2015 Full Member

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    :lol: Best guys in the division? He beat some guy named Angelo Leo who won a vacant WBO belt with 0 defenses and now pretty much retired after 20 fights. A little context on Brandon Figueroa. He's a good looking Mexican American with blue eyes, they've been trying to give him the Ryan Garcia/O DLH treatment from day one which is why they gifted him a fake WBA belt and why he's always on the top of the WBC lists but he just isn't as good. I watched that fight when it aired live and it could be argued that Fig won.
     
    DirtyDan, Jul 28, 2023
    DirtyDan, Jul 28, 2023
    #21
    box33 likes this.
  7. JOKER

    JOKER Froat rike butterfry, sting rike MFER! banned Full Member

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    You seem really bothered by Inoue's ascension to the top of the P4P summit.
     
    JOKER, Jul 28, 2023
    JOKER, Jul 28, 2023
    #22
    Aizen likes this.
  8. JunlongXiFan

    JunlongXiFan 45-6 in Kirks Chmpionshp Boxing Predictions 2022 Full Member

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    That's part of being "elite", for example we also naturally assume "temporally", as nobody would consider a fighter that beat a fighter that was 40 and elite at 30 still elite. Beating an elite 122 fighter at 130 is not beating an elite fighter in a real sense.

    And regularly=most of the time they fight them.
     
    JunlongXiFan, Jul 28, 2023
    JunlongXiFan, Jul 28, 2023
    #23
  9. Fogger

    Fogger Father, grandfather and big sports fan. Full Member

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    I can appreciate that and I guess the key to everything is the definition of elite.

    The other thing about this is if a fighter (Golovkin, Beterbiev, others) stays at one weight and consistently knocks out guys while defending his title then he can't be beating elite fighters because they aren't the best in their division. The fact about the boxers Inoue has been beating (Fulton and old Donaire, excepted), is that all the other champs he's beaten happened to be in the weight class before Inoue. If Inoue had been there first they would have just been vanquished challengers certainly no better than the level of Beterbiev's foes.

    I'm not disagreeing with you that Monster is the guy knocking out all the top opponents he's facing. I'm just saying I think he and Beterbiev both deserve that accolade.
     
    Fogger, Jul 28, 2023
    Fogger, Jul 28, 2023
    #24
    JunlongXiFan likes this.
  10. JunlongXiFan

    JunlongXiFan 45-6 in Kirks Chmpionshp Boxing Predictions 2022 Full Member

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    Figueroa has legitimate wins. He wasn't handed the belt, he beat Nery, who beat very long reigning bantamweight #1, Yamanaka. To win his 126 interim title, he beat Magsayo, who beat GAR jr, who reigned for 6 years at 126 and pushed Loma before that.

    And yeah, it was a close fight, but if you look at my post in the RBR, I had it for Fulton. Close with Fulton is a good add to his resume, but he definitely didn't definitely win that fight.
     
    JunlongXiFan, Jul 28, 2023
    JunlongXiFan, Jul 28, 2023
    #25
  11. JunlongXiFan

    JunlongXiFan 45-6 in Kirks Chmpionshp Boxing Predictions 2022 Full Member

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    If Beterbiev knocked out Bivol, I would agree. But one elite fighter really doesn't really do it. I agree Gvozdyk was an elite win. But he needs multiple. I'd also say Canelo would be eliteish at 175, though it looks like he's been fading since the Bivol loss. Hard to say as Golovkin and Ryder are better opposition than the guys he smashed on his 168 run. Anyway, rant aside, Bivol is a very elite fighter with elite defense (better by far than anyone Inoue has fought) and that'd settle all doubt he can do it regularly.
     
    JunlongXiFan, Jul 28, 2023
    JunlongXiFan, Jul 28, 2023
    #26
    Fogger likes this.
  12. Fogger

    Fogger Father, grandfather and big sports fan. Full Member

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    Really good subject and OP.
     
    Fogger, Jul 28, 2023
    Fogger, Jul 28, 2023
    #27
    JunlongXiFan likes this.
  13. Redbeard7

    Redbeard7 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    "Beating an elite 122 fighter at 130 is not beating an elite fighter in a real sense."

    So if you beat someone in a certain weight class and they went on to become no.1 in another, it inherently wouldn't count as an elite win? Are the rules different if they move up in weight?

    "And regularly=most of the time they fight them."

    Beterbiev has KO'd 100% of his elite opponents. Andy Ruiz too.
     
    Redbeard7, Jul 28, 2023
    Redbeard7, Jul 28, 2023
    #28
  14. JunlongXiFan

    JunlongXiFan 45-6 in Kirks Chmpionshp Boxing Predictions 2022 Full Member

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    I would say you only get credit for an elite win if you beat them at a weight class where they're elite, no exceptions in my mind.

    True, but as I said, they're not regularly doing it, just one offs. If either did it a second time I'd say the thread would be settled, but nobody else has been able to do it consistently against more than one opponent it seems.
     
    JunlongXiFan, Jul 28, 2023
    JunlongXiFan, Jul 28, 2023
    #29
  15. Redbeard7

    Redbeard7 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Also, Loma stopped Linares, who was Ring champion at 135. That's a big omission which suggests that you don't have all of the stats available on hand.
     
    Redbeard7, Jul 28, 2023
    Redbeard7, Jul 28, 2023
    #30
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