Napoles vs Duran at Welter in LA

I know all that someone will make mention of Griffith boiling down to welter again from middleweight to fight Napoles, and this may be true, but it probably wouldn't be any different if Griff had acclimated himself any better to the weight. An argument could be made that welter wasn't Napoles' natural weight either, being somewhat small framed and really he would have been ideally suited, size wise to junior welter.

 

Griffith will always suffer in comparison to guys who had flashier, more eye-catching styles, but that dosen't always tell the true story of who would win head to head.
As for Napoles, I would place the version of him that beat Ernie Lopez and Adolph Pruitt in their reespective rematches over ANY version of welterweight Duran...

 

Very tough fight...

but at W.W I'd go with Napoles UD.

 

That is a problem for him...Ive heard his style described as tedious even...Absolutely no doubting his effectiveness though.

That being said, if Duran had more "flash" it doesnt mean he was lacking in substance.

I thinks its a very evenly matched battle...Napoles could hit but Duran had a great chin and a solid defense (and vice-versa)..Napoles was the superior boxer but Roberto had taken out smooth, fluid fighters before with his combination of skill and natural aggression.
Its a fight where both seem to possess attributes that just about cancel each other out.

But the skin issue has to be considered...Given the calibre of fighter Roberto was..The physical and intense style he had, its highly likely its going to be a factor in this fight..And as I said with a fight between two such evenly matched fighters its things like this that could well split them.

 

Napoles would have laid back, outboxed Duran and would have driven him crazy by doing it, frustrating him like the other two master boxers did it, meaning Leonard and Benite, only he had the extra added ability to HURT Duran.

 

Yeah but I think you are looking at two examples where Duran wasnt at his best. Certainly wasnt for the 2nd Leonard fight. And Wilfred is a different fighter at a different weight.

If we are going to use fights where these guys werent at their best then we might aswell use the Backus or Muniz fights.

The Duran from the first Leonard fight didnt look like a man Napoles could simply "lay back" and outbox. He outfeinted one of fastest figthers in history and had him in all sorts of trouble when several great fighters prior to and after werent able to.

It may be down to my ignorance and lack of footage Ive seen of Jose but Ive just never seen him in with a guy at 147 who was the combination of what Duran brought stylistically and physically. Therefore I just cant agree that its sewn up for Jose like that...its a two way street kind of fight for me. A lot of things could happen when you got two such high level operators.

 

Remember that Leonard essentially fought the wrong kind of fight against Duran, which he proved in two susequent meetings. Leonard could have played it safe and won that first fight too, all the emotional **** regarding that fight notwithstanding. And as for Duran's fight with Palomino...yes I agree with you in that being a dominant and impressive performance by Duran, but nowhere can Palomino, even on his best day ever compare with Mantequilla.

 

Ah but who on Napoles welter resume could compare to Duran? Aside from Griffith, who is a different figther and thats a different fight.

And Im going to leave it for the most part...but dont start me on the whole Leonard fought the wrong fight thing..totally overblown.
People really wont give Duran his dues in that fight...They focus so much on what Leonard didnt do instead of what Roberto PREVENTED him from doing.

 

What a collision of elements this would be.

Duran rip-roaring past Napoles’ tender mask is the easy route, but a young ‘Mantequilla’ would insist on a painful one. For every well-feinted rush, Napoles would be bouncing to the beat of a man who deals in defiant combinations. Jose would not be prepared, not by the smallest integer, to let Duran dictate the marauding type of fight he would be constantly gunning for.

It’s a great struggle for physical and tactical superiority.

Duran was a little devil at closing the gap; he’d prim himself, lock on and pounce with a variety of punches, but Napoles had this funny way about him, a built-in mannerism to shuffle his position off centre to play tricks on your accuracy. Napoles did not possess the tucked away posture to avoid good shots, but he was very difficult to hit in general, wiggling about as he did.

Napoles did not sit on his back-foot and jab, he was very much an involved fighter who planned to cook you, microwave style, from the inside out. He would be happy to welcome Duran in for close-quarter combat, but that could prove troublesome as Roberto was rather excitable and is prone to connect with a stray butt amongst the frenzied exchanges.

Duran has a clear path to victory which consists of applying malfunction-worthy pressure and pleading for blood. For Napoles, he can revel in the danger zone, putting his skin at risk, or uncharacteristically step off and pot-shot…no, Napoles enjoyed the battle and would gut it out in the zone, so it may favor Duran; in the strictest sense, that is.

You think Napoles and you think cuts, but let’s make this a referee lenient gore-fest.

Duran is not going to be at his strongest when ring centre, checking range, nor Napoles when he is comprehensively pushed back, but the one intrinsic feature for Napoles to sway the fight in his favor is good old power. Jose had real ‘pop’ in his right and left hand, and he was an assassin at looping or sharpening the angle of his pile drivers. Leonard could dig, but not too the necessary degree to get Duran cringing.

Napoles seemed to shorten and lengthen his punches as the opponent closed or drifted away, an aspect when studied that comes across as miraculous. While the same can’t be said for his skin, Napoles’ jaw was as good as it gets; he was real tough, even absorbing Monzon’s crashing right. Duran’s chances to even shake his foe here are slim. The same applies to Napoles, but he will gain respect with his and Duran lost something when he became respectful.

Through blood and being blasted off balance, Napoles can regroup through the active rounds and slip in his uppercuts and body punches to stiffen and redirect the Duran train. It would meander in and out, from hectic to thoughtful, but Napoles had an ability to put-punchers-together that Ted Spoon has not seen on a level replicated by any other fighter on film. Duran may work a lovely grove from centre to the ropes, but then rather than tangling up a confused Leonard, Napoles would lean on him, pump his arms and be his creative self.

In a particularly attractive bout (not on Jose’ part), Napoles has the better spells, lands the more eye catching head work and comes half way in taming Duran over 15.

 

Nice post there Ted.

 

This is exactly what you've condemned in another thread; picking a bad nights work to judg a fighters chances in a hypothetical matchup :huh

 

It wasn't a bad night's work on Duran's behalf on those occasions where he was bamboozled..he was legitimately beaten despite his best efforts...remember my other previous post where I commented on Harold Johnson's ko defeat to Archie Moore in '54? Slick boxers who had the ability to make Duran look foolish was what he couldn't deal with...these type fighters with that kind of ability are few and far in between, but they showed Duran's achilles heel in that respect. Duran wasn't having an offnight when he fought either Leonard the second time, or Benitez...remember styles make fights. Napoles was in every way a complete fighter, susceptiblity to cut eyes being a weakness, but his combination of "buttery" slick moves and lethal power I believe would tip the scales in his favor vs Duran.

 

Exactly:yep Leonard even admitted it when interviewed by Howard Cossel:smoke

 

That's fair enough, but you can't make excuses for Leonard and then say Duran was fairly beaten in the rematch when it's clear to all those with eyes that he surely wasn't at his best.

 

Now that is absolute SHITE so obviously as far as you are concerned Duran was in the best shape of his life in New Orleans was he?:smoke