Mr boxing is often criticised on this site for his top 10 lists with some justification. Lets not overlook the other aspects of his career however. He was a champion of balck fighters in an era where a black man could be lynched for saying: "I want my coffe as black and strong as Jack Johnson and my eggs as beat up as Jim Jeffries". It is largley down to him that the history of great black champions from the lower weight classes like Dixon and Walcott has survived. He was a bastion of integrity in a dark period of American history and as late as the 70s he suported Muhamad Ali's right to the title after he had been stripped. Thoughts?
Yes, it is commendable that he did so in his era. When it comes to fighters of his youth, he seems very honest in his assesement. I do wonder how much he's seen of Jeffries though, and how reliable those reports are considering that was early in his life when gloved boxing wasn't very developed yet. Perspective of the time is not something that human memory (which is heavily under influence of emotion anyway) takes into account.
You might want to think about how our understanding of boxing history might be different without Fleischer. It could only be worse and it would be at the expense of black fighters.
Fleischer's achievements were flushed in one fell swoop when he decided to interfere in Ali-Liston II
BIG DEE HERE= WEALTHY ELITE, YOUR AN ASS. Nat Fleischer was one of the great figures in boxing history and at the time of his death in 1972. Nat Fleischer saw every heavyweight champion fight from James J Jeffries to Joe Frazier. To top it off seen future heavyweight champions fight, George Foreman, Ken Norton and Larry Holmes and at ringside no less. Yet a pip-squeek ass like you who`s never seen a damn thing in his life say`s he IRRELEVANT. YOUR AN ASS WITHOUT A BRAIN. I`VE HEARD A LOT OF DUMB THINGS ON THIS SITE SINCE I CAME BACK BUT THIS IS THE MOST ABSOLUTE IGNORANT THING I HAVE EVER READ. YOU SIR ARE IRRELEVANT
BIG DEE HERE = He got involved because he did want another Dempesy vs Tunney long count. But you are right as it has hurt his standing in history with the younger generation. Nat should have let the fight continue as maybe Ali would have had a clean KO instead of one that smells even to me today of a thrown fight. I have always thought that Liston flopped in that fight as the punch he got hit with was to be generous weak and wouldn`t have KOed a bantamweight much less a man with an almost Iron chin at that stage in his career.
Nat Fleischer loved Boxing, I used to go up in his office, Ring magazine when I was a kid it was a block or so away from the Garden. They had casts of fighters fist, Primo Carnera's looled like King Kong's...When I would see him alone in his office I would go in and talk to him. He would talk about guys like Ketchel,McCoy,Langford,Johnson,JEFFIRES,Dempsey,Louis....he did not think much of Ali at the time and he knew something was wrong ( a dive) just did not want a scandle,,,Shame when his Brother in Law Nat Loubet took over, he let John Ort run things and Don King started paying for rating's...when Nat F. was there he was as honest as could be...but he was an amazing guy..who could take you back and bring the old days to life and the fighters
i have 10 ring boxing encyclopedias,there maybe a few mistakes in them but for the amount of facts they contain it doesn't matter.still the best record books out
I agree here. He did a great deal for boxing and his penchant for bias (and unrealism) for old timers is insignificant to how much he loved the sport. A great boxing man.
I dont see much grounds for anyone here criticizing or dismissing his all-time lists. As noted, he favours old-timers who dont survive on film, or only survive in grainy fragments, so it's not within any living person's memory to have any real ammunition to heavily criticize his picks. In fact, in the absence of extensive and clear film of the fighters of that era, Fleischer's opinion should be considered among the evidence we use if we seriously want to make a judgment and set about rating those fighters in an all-time list.