Nat Fleischer's Top 10 Heavyweights

Nat Fleischer died in 1972. He never lived to have even see Ali defeat Frazier and Foreman let alone those other men. Fleischer's opinion on Ali may have changed a lot had he lived longer.

 

Wait he’s an expert of the red or the white?

 

Based on his autobiography it is clear that Nat’s two favorite fighters were Jack Johnson and Bob Fitzsimmons.

Nat's Top 10 list

He considered Schmeling “the most underrated” amongst all heavyweight champions.

Fleischer despised Liston and would never rate him at all


In evaluating Rocky Marciano he wrote December 1955 Ring, Those who believe that he lacks the necessary qualifications for gaining a niche in the fistic hall of fame as one of the greatest heavyweights of all time wont argue that as a puncher, he takes his place alongside such greats as Fitzsimmons, Jeffries, Louis and Dempsey. They limit his qualifications for greatness to the category of hitting power, strength and durability all of which Rocky possesses to a high degree but which are insufficient to gain for him a place among the greats of the past

Despite his crudeness, he can move about the ring at a pretty fast gate and can toss more punches than any heavyweight of recent years. But misses more frequently than any champion Ive ever seen.”

He has faced very few real punchers during his career. The two best, Walcott and Moore- both thirty-eight at the time-had Rocky on the canvas. Joe Louis is not included since when he met Rocky, the Brown Bomber had long since lost his once devastating punch.


"Clay never could have beaten Marciano. Clay's record is not the superior of the one the tragic Rocky left behind him when he retired from boxing unbeaten."

Nat also said it would be "farcical" to drop Rocky Marciano from his own top ten all time list in order to include Muhammad Ali.

"I did not regard Ali as a member of the leading 10 before he got into his argument with the Federal Courts. I did not see, in the Clay record as it stood after his seven-round knockout of Zora Folley in New York on March 22, 1967, any reason for my revising the heavyweight listing to include Cassius among the all-time 10. Nor did the Quarry, Bonavena, and Frazier fights impress me to the point at which I found myself considering ousting one of my Great 10 to make room for Clay."

 

Interesting Fleischer rated Dempsey so highly when he committed the most disgraceful duck in boxing history failing to take on Harry Wills. Fleischer actively campaigned for a Wills-Dempsey bout and used his RING magazine to generate a lot of public interest.

Nat Fleischer - "The best man in the field at present is Harry Wills, who probably would knock out Dempsey and Carpentier. All the top notch heavyweights have barred Wills because the negro outclasses the field in cleverness and heavy hitting. He undoubtedly would score a knockout over Gibbons"

 

Thanks for the info. Nat was entitled to his opinion of course but the negs he cites re Marciano could at the least be applied to Jeffries who he has no problem placing at # 2.

 

It's true. In 1949 Fleischer's top 10 was:

1. Jack Johnson
2. Jim Jeffries
3. Bob Fitzsimmons
4. Jim Corbett
5. Jack Dempsey
6. Sam Langford
7. Gene Tunney
8. Joe Louis
9. Tommy Burns
10. Tom Sharkey

 

Very interesting, SolomonDeedes! So Nat Fleischer, at some point, made adjustments to his list! He moved Jack Dempsey ahead of James J. Corbett. And it looks like he moved Joe Louis up as well. Then he slipped Max Schmeling in ahead of Tommy Burns and then brought Rocky Marciano on board. That makes me think further revisions might have been coming, if he had lived longer. Muhammad Ali, after he defeated Joe Frazier and George Foreman? Maybe he would have revisited Joe Louis and raised him? Other revisions? It is fun to think about.

 

Doubt it

 

Imagine getting worked up by an ATG list from a guy who died 50 years ago.

 

I remember this story and actually there was a little more to it. Like you said he saw Clay fooling around not taking things seriously and in an editorial I read, Nat said he gave him a good lecture. He then actually took credit for Clay winning the gold medal saying he turned himself around at the job at hand. Old Nat did have a bit of an ego there.

 

I would add that when he saw Floyd Patterson at the Olympics he told him he would take his title so boxing was very much on his mind. I would add that he was loved at the Olympics and in David Maraniss's book about the Rome Olympics he was called the mayor of the Olympic Village.

 

he knew some things on boxing history & record the result & keep the record facts & built good famous magazine to help boxing business. but for almost certainty Nat Fleischer not ever had the gloves on in his life. never train or steer manage boxer to top also if I am correct. he loves the boxing sport but as expert he is not the special qualified to judge & some of old time he ranks them I do not believe he saw these all actual fight

 

I reckon Mike Tyson watched as much film of the old timers as he did and unlike Nat punched people in the mouth and got punched in the mouth.