Nat Fleisher's Top 10 Heavyweights

I disagree. If most every expert is in agreement disagreeing 50 or 100 years later is a bit foolhardy. They were there, we were not.

I have people argue with me about Ali nit picking small issues and exploding them into something they were NOT. I then have to explain to them nice and slowly why they are totally off base. Now 40 years from now when I and people like me are no longer here people like THAT will flourish as first hand accounts and with them all the details are lost to time. THIS is exactly what is being done to great fighters like Johnson, Dempsey and many others today.

 

Sent! Thank you!

And I agree about Odd's rankings.

 

Somebody said it on here earlier that Gilbert Odd - who was very knowledgeable - seemed to make his picks on the career as a whole. I believe I saw Odds picks once and was surprised to see Tommy Burns in - I think - his top six. I think it was because he was the shortest or maybe because he defended the title a good few times or something like that. I think Floyd made it too because he was the youngest and the first to regain. So he had some different criteria. If you're going to go by record well then its a slam-dunk and you go by the numbers, but that means nothing to me. I pick on a head to head basis with a fighter in their absolute prime. So we all have different criteria. The one thing we all have in common - including Nat, Gilbert Odd, Goldman and us, is that we are all fight fans and as fight fans we all have favorites. And that can and has skewed our judgement. We can say it doesn't, but it does. Nat's top tens were primarily turn of the century fighters, because this is who he watched and when he fell in love with the sport. I've made top tens in all divisions and believe wholeheartedly that I've made a concise list that is very broad covering all decades and that I too, like Nat, am correct. But what I can't deny is that I do have a whole lot of fighters in there from the '70s and '60s. Coincidence that I fell in love with the sport at the time? Anyways, I don't put Nat or Odd or anyone else on a pedestal because I too have an opinion and we're all entitled to it. Sorry for the long diatribe. Hey, JW, is there any chance you can post Gilbert Odds list here? I think I've only seen his heavies.

 

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

 

Patterson the 4th greatest hwt champion? Odd.

 

Can I share some? Yes and No

Some of them were sent to me by people who have passed.

A few via private correspondence where the author doesn't want to publicize what he thinks! Those I can not share unless I ask.

But for the most part about 50 of them are from books.

If you want something specific, send me a PM.

I have fighters picks, authors picks, name historians picks, name press people's picks, a few tournaments from magazine and computers, and some off tangent stuff.

We can only post 7,500 characters here. My list is more like 80,000 characters...

 

Odd's full list!

Gilbert Odd (1985)
Kings of the Ring/100 Years of Heavyweight Boxing, by Gilbert Odd (pp. 151-154)

1-Muhammad Ali
2-Joe Louis
3-Jack Johnson
4-Floyd Patterson
5-Jack Dempsey
6-Jim Jeffries
7-Tommy Burns
8-Gene Tunney
9-Jim Corbett
10-Max Schmeling
11-Larry Holmes
12-Jack Sharkey
13-Jim Braddock
14-Ezzard Charles
15-Rocky Marciano
16-Joe Frazier
17-Bob Fitzsimmons
18-John L. Sullivan
19-Jersey Joe Walcott
20-Max Baer
21-Ingemar Johansson
22-Primo Carnera
23-Sonny Liston
24-Jess Willard
25-Marvin Hart

Note: in his forward to the 1977 edition to Jack Johnson's autobiography (which Odd edited), he notes that the only "great" champions to come along since Johnson were: Dempsey, Tunney, Louis, Marciano, Patterson and Ali. This comment makes his 15th place ranking of Marciano even more puzzling, though not, I'd venture to guess, as puzzling as his high rankings of Patterson (#4), Burns (#7) and Braddock (#13), or his obvious disdain for Liston (#23) and Foreman (unranked).

 

Odds picks are about as bad as I have seen. If he could explain his criteria, they might be a little better

 

I was just going to say ... atsch

 

Joe Frazier at 16? Sounds legit ... especially when you have Patterson at 4 :roll:

 

Holmes at that point had 20 defenses did he not?

Good lord.

 

I would interested if you could print a few selected lists from prior to WWII if you have any.

 

Mendoza,

Do you have any of the following fighter's lists? John L Sullivan, Bob Fitzsimmons, Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney, and Rocky Marciano? I would be interested in any one of these if you have them.

Thank You.