Nat Fleisher's Top Ten Heavyweights -1971

In 1958 Fleischer wrote, “I have been on intimate terms with every heavyweight champion since James J. Corbett. I have seen almost every heavyweight championship bout in the past half century, and most of those in other divisions that reach across a stretch of many exciting years.” Fleischer in fact saw every heavyweight champion from Jim Jeffries and Jack Johnson to Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier from ringside, most of those from the first row. Possibly no one else in history can make that claim. Fleischer’s unique perspective demands respect from those who are interested in the history of boxing."


Fleischer did not graduate from college until 1908 ,the year Johnson beat Burns for the title..

 

Nat has some contradictions. If he saw Jeffries as Champion, it was likely vs. Corbett or Fitz.

Sharkey is the other pick.

 

No, it was Jeffries v Johnson.

 

You have to respect Fleischer.
I don't agree with his list but he knew a lot more about boxing than I do.
I do think he short changed Ali. I'm not an Ali fan, but he definitely belongs somewhere in anyone's top 10.

I also believe Liston belongs there. I admit that is debatable.

 

Ali didn't belong there in 1971 imo.

 

great post. I do feel bad that we don't have enough footage of Jeffries, Corbett, Fitzimmons and even Johnson and the footage that we do have is of poor quality. Obviously i can't dismiss the opinions of those who saw them fight.

 

As of 1972 there were only 21 past hwt champions who could be rated. Frazier and Ali were both still active and both considered fringe ATG at best at that time.

Fleischer adamantly felt the old timers were the greater fighters. Tougher and " masters of the finer points of the game". Note that Nat was not just a boxing writer. He boxed as an amateur in his youth.

Fleisher was at the Jeffries Johnson bout. He saw Fitz and Corbett in exhibitions later in their career.

 

A jaundiced view of the past.

His dismissal of Ali's real name is troubling.

 

He dismissed Ali's fake name.
He called him by his real and legal name - Cassius Clay.
A lot of people still called him Clay in the early 1970's.

 

In regards to Muhammad Ali, there were many people in boxing circles who still referred to him as "Clay" throughout his career. For the most part, such people usually had been on the boxing scene for quite awhile. But the media and a large majority of people referred to him as Muhammad Ali by the 1970s.

- Chuck Johnston

 

Did he call Louis ,Joseph Barrow? Walcott ,Arnold Cream?
Marciano, Marghegiano? Robinson,Walker Smith?

 

oooo

 

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/result?q=frazier+clay

It is interesting. Arguably the most famous fight of all time and allegedly the fight of the century seems to have been promoted as Frazier vs Clay! At least definitely in australia. It was a long time before the media accepted the clay name. Was it the three year exile and supreme court case that changed the tide?

 

Fleischer rationalized not ranking Liston by, "his ignominious defeats". Whether one agrees or not is up to the individual.
Head to head Liston is a monster.imo.:good

 

Just to be clear ,Fleischer was not colour prejudiced ,he risked the future of his fledgling magazine to stand up for Harry Wills and campaign for him to receive his well earned title shot, by no means a universally popular point of view in1920's America.
Fleischer was also a close friend of Jack Johnson.
He continued to recognize Ali as champ after the alphabet boys had stripped him, it was only when Ali said I'll give my belt to the winner of Ellis v Frazier that he dropped his support of Ali's title claims. I don't agree with many of his picks, but he did a lot for boxing imo,and there is no doubt he loved the game.