Natural LWs who defeated a WW or MW king?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Stonehands89, Jan 10, 2009.


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  1. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    How far back must one go to find a fighter who did what Duran did in 1980 against WW Ray Leonard and in 1989 against MW Iran Barkley?

    1938:
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    ? (which begs the question: do you consider Ross a natural LW or WW? Armstrong?)

    1933:
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    ? (which begs the question: was Jimmy a natural LW or did he simply grow out of it?)
    ..............
    Does Duran's win over Barkley have precedent? If so, who and when?
     
    Stonehands89, Jan 10, 2009
    Stonehands89, Jan 10, 2009
    #1
  2. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    if you count mayweather who argualy his prime was lightweight beat baldomir and judah at welter
     
    GPater11093, Jan 10, 2009
    GPater11093, Jan 10, 2009
    #2
  3. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I'm looking at before 1980/1989.
     
    Stonehands89, Jan 10, 2009
    Stonehands89, Jan 10, 2009
    #3
  4. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    kk and its not a very great examp0le anyway

    sorry misread your post it hoguht you meant who the last person to do it
     
    GPater11093, Jan 10, 2009
    GPater11093, Jan 10, 2009
    #4
  5. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Napoles, Mayweather, Benny Leonard, Whitaker, Mosley and Delahoya (both 160lb on fight night natural Lightweights :lol: ).....Sugar Ray Robinson actually fought his first 18-19 fights below or around LW
     
    PowerPuncher, Jan 10, 2009
    PowerPuncher, Jan 10, 2009
    #5
  6. the cobra

    the cobra Awesomeizationism! Full Member

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    Ike Williams beat Kid Gavilan, though Gavilan wasn't champion then.

    I can't think of a natural Lightweight defeating a Middleweight champion with the exception of Duran, although Armstrong should have had that honor in the Garcia fight.
     
    the cobra, Jan 10, 2009
    the cobra, Jan 10, 2009
    #6
  7. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Robinson developed into a natural WW. Duran started at Super Bantam... but he was 16. He was a natural LW. A fair way to figure this is to see what weight they were fighting at when they were 25 years old.
     
    Stonehands89, Jan 10, 2009
    Stonehands89, Jan 10, 2009
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  8. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Good try, but no dice here.

    Well, Garcia, wasn't really a natural MW himself.
     
    Stonehands89, Jan 10, 2009
    Stonehands89, Jan 10, 2009
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  9. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    There's never been a linear titlist from lightweight to middleweight.

    With splinter titlists perhaps a Jose Napoles could have joined Duran and with honest judges Armstrong as well.

    Armstrong's effort against Garcia in the drawn middleweight match was probably a better victory than Duran's against Barkley considering that Armstrong was smallish even for a lightweight and Garcia was a better fighter than Barkley. Also incidentally, I had Barkley-Duran scored a draw.
     
    sweet_scientist, Jan 10, 2009
    sweet_scientist, Jan 10, 2009
    #9
  10. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    SS, Duran was in his 22nd year as a pro, 37 years old and woefully physically overmatched. Barkley had just cold-cocked Duran's conqueror in Hearns and was physically bigger and stronger than even Hearns. Add to that Barkley's game plan which was exactly what the younger, bigger, stronger man wants to do against an aging, smaller man: jab him to death, set a torrid pace, get physical, pound the body. Duran beat him anyway. That's a miracle.

    In contrast, Armstrong was near peak, and had already beaten Garcia for the WW title. Garcia was 5'7 and was not naturally a MW anyway.

    ... but I'm not looking for a debate here. This isn't a quiz either. I'm honestly looking for information --equivalents in history for what Duran did against Leonard and Barkley.
     
    Stonehands89, Jan 10, 2009
    Stonehands89, Jan 10, 2009
    #10
  11. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Duran's win was more against the odds and incredible given the circumstances, but Armstrong's win was a higher level win for me. Duran's win is more remarkable, not denying that at all Stoney.

    Hopkins winning into his 40's is remarkable too. Doesn't mean that if there was an Ezzard Charles around he wouldn't be having his ass handed to him. Get my drift?
     
    sweet_scientist, Jan 10, 2009
    sweet_scientist, Jan 10, 2009
    #11
  12. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Got it.

    Funny enough, I was just watching Duran-Barkley and was wondering what would have happened had that Duran fought 1998 Joppy.

    .............
    Can you come up with any natural LWs in history who defeated a natural WW champ or a natural MW champ...? I'm crafting an article commemorating the 20th anniversary of Duran-Barkley.
     
    Stonehands89, Jan 10, 2009
    Stonehands89, Jan 10, 2009
    #12
  13. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I'd take 89 Duran over 98 Joppy any day of the week.

    Perhaps Jackie Fields has an argument against Young Jack Thompson or Lou Brouillard. Most would be inclined to say Jackie was a natural welter though....

    Napoles also has an argument if you consider him a natural lightweight. He was always a smallish welter, but I'd say he was more a natural 140 pounder really.
     
    sweet_scientist, Jan 10, 2009
    sweet_scientist, Jan 10, 2009
    #13
  14. OBCboxer

    OBCboxer Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Henry Armstrong coming up from LW to beat Barney Ross at WW and then go on to beat Ceferino Garcia again for the MW crown but got robbed.
     
    OBCboxer, Jan 10, 2009
    OBCboxer, Jan 10, 2009
    #14
  15. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Thanks... SS, I would consider Fields a WW myself. What do you think of the questions in the lead post here about McLarnin, et al.?
     
    Stonehands89, Jan 10, 2009
    Stonehands89, Jan 10, 2009
    #15
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