New Book - In the Ring With James J. Jeffries

I read this link ages ago, its nothing new.It seems to suggest that Johnson was groggy at the finish,but I have read reports that apart from being a dull affair, Johnson was not in danger.
To state that because Johnson was in trouble late does not mean he had not done enough to win or salvage a draw.
Now that we know it was a scheduled 10 rounder, any views on whether battling Jim could have stopped Jack ,given more rounds, are hypothetical.
I gave you an honest answer as to who should have won ,I've read the reports you have and others too,I have no clear picture as to who deserved the win IF ANYONE.
If ,you cannot accept that tough **** .you would obviously put the most negative spin on Jack's performance and aver that Jim Johnson was robbed,
I have to tell you, no one else seems to care too much either way !

 

Terrible translation of a round-by-round account of the fight;

Round first. — To The signal of the time-keeper Jack walks on Jim, the low hands, comes very near and
squints to the body. Jim comes in clinch. To the released, the black black hides himself, but does not avoid
a direct dazzling left to the the ace. Jim hangs.

Round second. — Jim does an attack and shady to the flank. The. blow causes to burst out laughing the yellow black. that to
the released, touches of an uppercut of the right.. Then Jack cuts down of a blow dii straight -a direct one that destines
him Jim and the touch on the flank of a hook of the right. Jim launched itself on his opponent, month finds a guard closed
and does not touch that in the gloves. Advantage to the world champion.

Round third. — On one pretend Jack, Jim comes in clinch and hangs on. The yellow black sees his opponent and shoots him a hook to the flank.
Jim returns and touches of a hook of the right to the head. The fight animates itself. Jim. touches again to the head, but takes a hook to the
stomach.

Round fourth. — Jim stretches his left. The yellow black pretend the left and crochets same has the head. Jinn retorts pure a
half one- right swing, that touches has, the sheet metal. Jack crcclïèlû of the left, but his blow concerns the inique of -his
opposing one. This is at this point in time that it broke himself the forearm. It has not besides anything publishes and
laughed, to the. opposite, démesu- rément.

Round fifth. — Jack' pretended the left and touches of a light direct one, that it doubles shortly after.
Then it touches two times of the right to the flank. Jim hangs on and holds. The yellow black brutally pushs
back it, and crochets it right. Big advantage to Jack Johnson.

Round sixth. — Jack tanks and squints of one - right uppecut to the stomach. Jim comes in clinch, silly
releases itself immediately and hits anii body. The yellow black pretend the right and then left, and touches
next of a dtreoL of the right to the body.

Round seventh. — Feigned Jack and Jim comes immediately in body to body cl hangs on on 'released o. The
yellow black returns on a direct one gaucho and touches right to the côros. Jim s'ac itself <croche- and fight
s.

Round eighth. &#8212; Jack touches entry of one of the, right to the cslomac. Jim looks for the body to body. To the released, the black black tou-
drops to the face,. secured covers itself ensu.ilo of its gods hands open and avoids thus two cro- right chets that shoots for him in riposlc Jack".
11 riposlo of the right, then attacks of the. gaucho cl succeeds one -douljlé.

Round ninth. &#8212; Jack attacks furious of the right. Jim touches on the released of a hook of the left. The men come in body has. body.
Released, Jack carries a right uppercut, that slipped. on the face of his opponent. Jim riposlc and shady three times of the right to the
mâ- drop.

Round tenth. &#8212; The two pugilistes s'obser itself- wind, then Jim throws itself. on Jack cl, squints of a r.roohol. right. Jim comes back to
the load and shady of a new one, crochel. to the stomach" The two men hang on and slip to earth. Jim, raised, loads Jack and the lôncho two
times of the right. The gong resounds.

The judges, MM. Frnnlz Frichel and Oudin ,proclaimed the match to no one.

 

Oh, its quite clear in that report I posted who the winner was. I can accept the fact that the great Jack Johnson who some claim was un hittable was in fact shown up by a journeyman, and lucky to escape with his title intact.

You say you have read other reports? Care to post any of them here? I highly doubt it. My fight report is below.

This content is protected

Also, there is a difference of opinion on the rounds. Just because a report is in French doesn't mean its right. As I pointed out, the CBZ said 20 rounds, and Unforgivable Blackness also said 20 rounds..I think. The book also states that one judge gave the fight to Battling Jim, and the other two said draw. But since Jack was the champ, and likely had some say on who the judges were, this should not surprise anyone. Also, there was no re-match here. The fight should be a stain on a champions legacy. And it was.

 

You can put what spin on it you like,I don't beleive any else on here really cares.
Johnson's continuing stature as a great fighter gnaws at you like a rat at a piece of cheese.

You need help. :-((

 

The news reads and facts are just that. I suggest you accept them or see a shrink. :-(( I do agree that Johnson was a great fighter in his time. No questions there. I also believe his results in many fights were suspect at best, and he is does not always impress on film, and in news reads.

 

Finished the chapter on preperation for Jeffries-Corbett I. Many impressed with Corbett's condition. Agreement to no fighting in the clinches, 24-ft ring.

 

The big ring benefited a boxer mover like Corbett. Did the book mention that one of the Jeffries vs. Corbett fights was filmed, but the results were a poor picture.

 

Every single pre-fight mention in the French press -and we are talking at least ten different papers and reports- list the fight as scheduled for ten rounds. No way was it scheduled for 20. CBZ does not give a primary source. Simply an error-it happens the best.
As to the fight reports, I have multiple reports but my French is poor. I will post them here if somebody can translate them well. It appears that it was a slow fight with Jack in command which is at odds with the NY Times report. However we wouldn't look to the French papers for a report on Johnson-Jeffries, would we?
"Unforgivable Blackness" states that the fight was ten rounds, suggests that Jack had the better of a bad fight despite hurting his arm in the third. It also states-incorrectly-that the referee awarded the draw, with no mention of the judges. All the ringside reports suggest Jack had the upperhand. Are you thinking of some other book?

 

Jim Johnson managed to spoil his way to a draw against Sam McVea when the latter was coming into his prime.

An old and fat Jack Johnson managed to hold him off for ten rounds with a broken arm.

 

i have to say, if the most hated champion in the world had just lost a fight by TKO which was overruled, or if a fight had to be shortened, Isnt it almost certain taht the press of the time (not years after) would have seized the opportunity to either demand he was stripped, demand he rematch his conqueror, support his conqueror as an alternate world champion, and generally make a massive deal over this incident? It just doesnt make any sense whatsover to me.

 

bang on!

 

He went the distance several times with Joe Jeanette before the Johnson fight, and had some stoppage wins. He was actually bigger than Jeanette, McVey and Langford at 6 3 and 220 plus pounds. He was not the low level journeyman that most people suggest. In fact, he was the best coloured fighter around that had not already been beaten by Jack Johnson!

The year after he fought Johnson, he continued going the distance with NC against Jeanette, McVey and Langford. Actually for all we know, he could have won some o fthose under modern scoring though i am sure others will know enough to say he didnt. In 1915, he added Harry Wills to the list of great fighters he went the distance with (going 20 rounds). In fact, Jim Johnson actually has a winning record against Harry Wills, having one once and fought two no contests. The ironic thing about the third fight with Wills that Johnson won, is that Harry Wills actually broke his arm against Johnson! So, you can also add that when Harry Wills suffered the same injury as Jack Johnson, against Jim Johnson, things were so hopeless that he had to throw in the towell. It starts to make what Jack Johnson did look even more impressive. Given that this makes two fighters (world class) who broke their arms against Johnson you have to start to wonder whether he had some type of pet trick to hurt the arms of opponents. (such as grappling the arms or striking with the elbows or something similar). Anyway, i think that Jim Johnson is very underated on this board today.

 

I do not think that Jim Johnson had any proclivity towards injuring an opponents arm,,but it is just possible he was a bit better than he is credited with being.
Jack Johnson,in his book" In The Ring And Out", was fullsome in his praise of him.
The facts are that Johnson broke his tibia,he said it occured in the third round, whatever, he struggled through the fight,others in the same predicament did not.

 

Well the French wanted to strip Johnson of his title for this fight.

 

Matt,

Perhaps we should contact Mike DeLisa of the CBZ. Mike has 1,000+ hours of research, and could very well produce the report which says the match was scheduled for 20 rounds.

The French report translation is murky. The New Times of course reads much better, and clearly indicates Battling Jim was getting the better of the action.

Regarding the three judges, I have read two of them said draw, and one said Battling Jim deserved to win. Is this your understanding of the scoring as well?