This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected 2. lack of top men in each division - haymon has a lot of boxers however he doesn't have any of the top mean in any division which hurts. fury,lebedev,kovalev,abraham,ggg,pacman,crawford,flanagan,lomachenko,rigo,gonzalez are the top name in there respective division and not with pbc. this makes it hard to become a monopoly when a fighter outside of your business is seen by as the best 3. no system of making the best fight the best - pbc fighters and fights have been known for mismatches and taken the easy options. if haymon was in control of the whole of boxing no system would be in place to make the best fight the best and great boxers with no following would try and be frozen out to keep the cash cows in poll position. AIBA(APB boxing). this is aiba new power play to start up their own boxing league and are already up to 12 round fights 1. Huge grass roots system - similar to fifa. aiba have an national body in every country and every boxer at some point is under there governance. No other entity in boxing could come close to this system and is the equivalent of an underage system we see in soccer and basketball throughout the world. 2. Fair rankings system and best fight the best - apb pro boxing league is basically a constant super 6, you win you advance and get up the rankings and get closer to a title shot, you lose and you go down. Boxers don't pick or choose who they fight it depends on rankings. this is great as a hypejob wont ever happen in this system and ensure the best reach the top. it also means boxers cant cherry pick and above styles they cant handle to reach the top. 3 - 10 weight divisions ,1 champion - what every boxing fan wants, less divisons one champion no nonsense 4. fighters will fight more often - apb fighters I think fought around 5-6 times in the first year. wsb fighters can have around 7-10 fights a year. fans don't like fighters who only fight once or twice a year 5. proper drug testing - numerous boxers have already been caught in wsb and apb. boxers and subject to the Olympics year round drug testing unlike the farcical drug testing in pro boxing 6. a truly global boxing world - big advantage Cuban boxers are competing over 12 rounds in apb boxing. this is huge in itself. as well as Uzbekistan,kazakhstan Azerbaijan and Russian boxers who tend not to go pro disadvantages 1. slow to build a brand - aiba will be fighting against traditional promoters looking to poach amateur talent. they will be looking to try and keep most of the stars of the Olympics in their league which could be very difficult 2. further divides professional boxing - its one thing having cold wars but if apb becomes very big and rivals pro boxing you will have a situation where traditional pros and apb pros will under no circumstances be allowed face each other 3. how will payments work - from what I understand current apb boxers received a sign up fee which depended on how good they were and how much apb wanted them. in addition these boxers are also paid by their government as they are Olympic boxers. this is probably okay to start off with but is kind of hard to understand how it will develop in the future and can apb purse rival traditional pro purses, this is where its success could hinge. on the plus side for apb they have national governments basically paying all their fighters too which obviously helps in cost, the boxers also have all training ,travel expenses medical etc paid for which is to the advantage of apb and aiba in conclusion I feel that the Al Haymon monopoly is a more realistic probability future but I don't think it would be a monopoly system id like to see as I feel it could be very frustrating for hardcore fans. however it could be good for the casual fans and popularity of boxing . I think that the apb system of 10 divisions and the best fight the best and boxers don't control who they fight is what I would love to see controlling boxing and what most other fans would love to see. Also the fact that Cuban boxers would be allowed to compete would be a big plus and with a great grassroots system and wsb we could have more boxing than ever before. But for aiba to gain monopolistic control I feel it would take a very long time and would result in a huge split in professional boxing before it is achieved furthermore id like to hope that a civilised discussion can be had on the points made and no trolls come on here and ruin this thread because if you don't have any interest in discussing the points raised and simply want to cheerlead and troll than I hope you do it on another thread. I hope the mods can help too if this happens as almost every thread on here gets ruined
id understand that point of view for the haymon model barcham but aiba have a association in every country, a world league in the wsb and national competitions and on top of that the apb which includes cuba it is a huge ask but they are the only organisation with the correct structure to actually have a chance at doing it
AIBA is a good format, I just cant see where the money comes from to compete with the traditonal pro guys
I think that's a big barrier to their plans, im not sure if I highlighted that above yet so thanks for highlighting it to play devils advocate aparantly Wu the president of aiba is a billionaire( he has also been the driving force behind the wsb and apb movement) he has also managed to secure between 50-100 million in investments so far so its not impossible that they could have enough money/
Most sports have a body which, to varying degrees, oversees things from the top of the pyramid. It seems kind of archaic that boxing doesn't, in the pro game at least. Football, tennis, athletics, cycling, golf etc. So, ideally... Each country, or perhaps continent, votes in representatives for an initially small committee, comprised of members from commissions, promoters, doping control, legal types etc. They agree upon and set about enforcing some basic principles in the best interest of pro boxing, covering for example: Refereeing standards/training Judges Extortion of fighters Mandatories Rankings PED testing There are so many problems though. Primarily, where they get funding from. And the lack of incentive for anyone who's currently making money. The only way I could see anything like this potentially happening, is in the wake of a huge scandal regarding, say, match fixing, systematic doping by a national commision, massive corruption in a sanctioning body. Basically something big enough for international law to step in, and stipulate more controls have to be in place. So yeah, it's not happening. And even if it did, look at the ****ing waste of space that FIFA and the IOC are. Anyway, I really haven't thought this through enough, but it's interesting to consider.
I think aiba is then the best option Refereeing standards/training - refereeing is very good and consistent Judges - judging needs work,hometown decisions can be ridiculous Extortion of fighters - fighters get everything paid for eg expenses,training,medical needs and will already be paid by their government Mandatories - best part of it fighters cant choose who they fight, they have to face their mandatories Rankings - again be selling point every rise in the rankings is gained and every lose brings you down, its a very fair system that cant be fiddled PED testing - actualy year round Olympic testing, best possible out there
The principle of APB is nice, but as effectively a start-up trying to compete wealthy incumbents, will struggle to get off the ground. I'd suggest for some sort of universal standards to be put in place, it would have to be a new initiative, above, and not replacing or competing with the status quo. Which is why there would have to be a major, almost certainly legal, catalyst for it to happen. No company is going to willingly choose to have more controls imposed on them, or want the prospect of sanctions hanging over them. I guess I've lost track of you using the term monopoly here, I just mean an org with power of veto over standards globally, rather than a company running a 'league' or such like.
Nice outline of aiba's apb and their attempt to restructure boxing. I also am a huge supporter of the concept and hope aiba's ultimately able to meet its ambitious goal of becoming the single governing body of boxing. The drawbacks of a ufc-style Haymon monopoly running boxing are apparent, which you've touched on. If Haymon ran all top-level boxing in the US and much of it elsewhere I do think we'd be better off than we are with conflicting promotional interests, but it's ultimately not a huge change. Significantly, hype and popularity more than fair matchups would still rule boxing. Boxing's never been run like a proper sport, and all of us who follow know that's why it has the problems it does. It's outrageous that promotional businesses just 'make' fights. As is the convention that because boxing is 'fighting' this challenge system is somehow inherent. What aiba's come up with is finally a remedy to this. You can't just 'become' a professional boxer under aiba's model. You have to prove yourself first as an amateur, then as a national pro, then continental, then as a world level pro. A pro fighter moves up the ranks as he wins and down the rankings as he loses, and the rankings determine matchups. Boxing can't be a proper sport without this sort of competitive structure, and we have to suspect the intentions of anyone who argues against it. Mismatches are what keep boxing from being the great sport it could be. If apb ran all of boxing we'd be getting a great fight and several quality, important matchups basically every week. And fair matchmaking is just the most essential advantage of one governing body running a sport. It's great that under apb boxers fight a good 4 times a year. But I wonder if a top fighter's schedule could be too heavy. If he competes under apb and represents his country in wsb and the Olympics he could box 10 or 12 times in a year. What you suggest is a drawback from what I understand is actually part of aiba's plan for the long-term sustenance of apb. A significant portion of Olympic spots are now reserved for apb boxers. So there's a smaller pool available for non-aiba promoters to sign after the Olympics. That means apb both gets a greater chance at signing amateurs out of the Olympics, and dangles apb as a path for boxers to reach the Olympics. With this loophole, I see apb either growing significantly over the next two Olympics, or Olympic boxing being rejected and boxers sticking to regular pro. I absolutely agree with your last point, and find it disappointing that apb hasn't already instituted a purse structure with the competition system. A tennis player earns a specified amount for each round he makes it through a tournament. So too should boxers under a fair competition structure be paid purely based on merit. A champion could make say 500,000 for defending his title, while the number 10 ranked guy might make 100,000. The best in a division regardless of weight or popularity should make the same. The numbers I threw out there might seem low, but while Mayweather, Pacquiao, Canelo, etc, would take huge paycuts, just as many quality but less popular fighters would make more under a merit-based purse structure. Plus, as you said they wouldn't have the expenses pro boxers do now. The league would pay trainers directly, maybe as a % of a boxer's purse. I think with a fair competition structure there has to be a set purse structure. I don't think it would be a bad thing if as much as half of pro boxing was run by apb. That would be about the threshold where promoter-based boxing wouldn't have much to stand on. If there were several hundred or even dozen elite boxers showcasing the logic of a merit-based competition structure while Haymon and Arum were battling it out over the leftovers I want to believe its qualities would be so apparent that they'd even more quickly grow and promoters quickly die. By then I imagine apb would be able to sell itself with its frequent great matchups, even if most of the top 'stars' weren't associated with it. Maybe at that point aiba could buy out any remaining promoters, who knows. Only when it's pretty big but no bigger than say one existing promoter would it be no more than just a slice in the confused pie that is boxing. When it becomes a 'monopoly' as you suggested it might it wouldn't have that issue. Building enough visibility that apb brings in enough money to be able to pay significant enough purses to lure top-level pros is a big challenge. While wsb had a few tv deals apb hasn't been shown beyond youtube. That's where Haymon and traditional promoters of course seem impossible to beat. The biggest challenge to aiba's league running pro boxing though: from what I understand state commissions and promoters are legally required to sanction a boxing match in the US. US law accepts that promotional businesses are good for the economy, and the pseudo-jurisdiction the commissions provide is legally accepted as enough. That's why there were issues staging wsb events in the US, and likely why apb hasn't been staged in the US at all. Is my understanding about the legal power of commissions and promoters in the US wrong? If they therefore can't make inroads in the US apb won't go anywhere. At best a much deeper cold war, US pro boxing vs international APB, and Olympic boxing without US participation.
You sound like a promotional shill when you say boxing by its 'very nature' won't work as a league. In boxing stars are protected by being matched against no-hopers, and championships are therefore meaningless. What comes close to that sort of practice in another sport? By that logic tennis competition isn't free and open if Djokovic doesn't get to pick who wants to play in the Australian Open final. It's not by its 'nature' difficult to make significant change in boxing. It's difficult because of how entrenched the unjust practices of promoter-run boxing are. And of how low the expectations of boxing fans and media are.
