Next To Langford Did Moore Fight The Most Black Fighters?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Sep 29, 2014.


  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Next to Sam Langford, did Archie Moore fight the most fellow black fighters?
     
  2. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    No. Tunney or Loughtan.
     
  3. I Know Everythi

    I Know Everythi Well-Known Member Full Member

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    what about Holman/Burley/Marshall. don't know if they're the most but they have to be up there
     
  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    While Tunney didn't fight a black opponent its not all his fault. Here's a seldom repeated fact. Tunney wanted / said he would fight Harry Wills. Wills refused.

    There is a fighter who took on all comers, including some top black fighters and white fighters that Joe Louis never meet in the ring. His name was Bob Pastor
     
  5. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Not sure how we'd even go about researching this.
    (certainly it's not an important issue, but it's interesting trivia.)

    I'd guess that it would be someone modern recent. Or Ray Robinson?
     
  6. Chuck1052

    Chuck1052 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Harry Wills had been a heavyweight contender for many years before Gene Tunney became a top heavyweight. Under the circumstances, why should Wills accept an elimination bout with Tunney? Would a white fighter with Wills' credentials be subjected to such treatment? I doubt it.

    - Chuck Johnston
     
  7. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    It's all money in the bank.
     
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    By the time Tunney offered to fight Wills Harry was aging,[ 37 ,] and a bit past prime, he had been the standout contender for a considerable time, Tunney was a huge risk at that stage of Harry's career .As you say he should not have had to face Tunney in an eliminator and his manager Paddy Mullins understandably vetoed the idea,he also turned thumbs down on a George Godfrey fight for the same reason. A month after Tunney beat Dempsey ,Wills fouled out to Sharkey after being beaten up.Tunney would probably have beaten Wills at that stage too imo.
     
  9. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    With the very real prospect of having to earn it the hard way ,given how Sharkey handled Wills just a month after Tunney beat Dempsey.
     
  10. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Not important but possibly interesting trivia?

    Langford faced black fighters over 140 times, of course he met many of them multiple times, for example he faced Jack Thompson at least 7 times.
     
  11. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Those were the times. Wills was still big with a punch. He did not want to meet Tunney later in his career. This shows Tunney would fight a black name fighter.

    Wills avoided the best black heavy of the times in George Godfrey when they were both in their prime. Godfrey's manager tired to make the fight several times.

    While there is no doubt Wills was shafted by Dempsey's management, he was also a bit risk adverse himself.
     
  12. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Ok, if we count every rematch against a black fighter as another black fighter, then, yeah, it's probably Langford.
     
  13. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Right, Tunney probably would have battered him.
    Dempsey-Wills is the interesting one because both of them were washed-up, and that would have been the super money fight.
    A bit ironic, considering that Tunney an.d Sharkey were arguably the better pair.
     
  14. Chuck1052

    Chuck1052 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Whoa! George Godfrey had a spotty record at best up until 1925 while Harry Wills probably was a bit past his prime by that year.

    Is there solid evidence that Gene Tunney was willing to fight a black fighter? He may have said that he was willing, but the fact is that he never fought a black fighter during his career.

    - Chuck Johnston
     
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    "Harry Takes the High Road in Low Country

    Though Wills was black, he was not without means, money and popularity. Suing your way into a fight without promoters may have been like suing the stock market for not going up, but it got Wills’ case on record. In the meantime, there were many other fighters other than Wills in competition for Dempsey’s title, and the contenders battled one another for position. But Wills and his manager Paddy Mullins choose not to fight and thus eliminate any of his leading rivals including Tommy Gibbons, Billy Miske, Georges Carpentier, Jim Maloney, Harry Greb, Young Stribling, and Jack Delaney, none of whom drew the color line. Even Gene Tunney offered in 1925. Rickard may not have wanted to take chances, but Wills didn’t want to take chances either. By helping to keep Dempsey in court instead of the ring—Wills also sued to stop both the Dempsey-Firpo and Tunney fights—Wills may further have dimmed his own prospects."