No cherry picking Marquez

Totally agree with you about Marquez. He is not even a lightweight. He is a featherweight who is going up in weight in the last stage of his career only for one reason. To get money before retiring. And yes, Floyd is cherrypicking

 

It's the "I'm the best fighter ever" comment that gets me riled up. A boxer like mayweather doesn't need self-promoted greatness, if there's such a thing. Other than that, PBF is a fine fighter ever since his first bout. Good to hear he has 5 fights coming up. Fans old and new know about it and a lot of talent is at his fighting range, so the doors to greatness are wide open. Hope he makes the right sacrifices this time, no hero was ever made without sacrifice (i.e. sacrificing a couple of million bucks to fight for legacy- besides, $18m + prestige > $20m). Let's judge the cherrypicking at later contracts.

I have my preferences for his first fight after the layoff, but I do understand why he answered JMM's call because as far as casual fans are concerned, pound-for-pound number 2 sounds marvelous without knowing what pound-for-pound means. You then get a tune-up fight (i mean c'mon, the odds are in his favor) and a marketing holiday. Let's not forget that mentioning JMM drags the name PAcquiao in the picture. Look at what's happening. PBF vs JMM is always awash with another popular name in press conferences and promotion gimmicks. It is a dream come true for any promoter.


I wish he fought Cotto, Clottey or any ranked WW for his first. Pac fights JMM a 3rd time. THen PBF vs PAC. But we don't always get what we want.

 

Let me just say first that I am not a particular fan of any of the boxers at 147..... and no, I don't think that any of the boxers you mentioned could be considered the best..... to be the best you have to prove it in the ring and not on papers....they are tryng to prove that in the ring at the present and that's why we see some of the fights happening. Good for them....

Regarding fights being "stupid fights" (you mentioned this term, before I did) I don't say they are stupid because the champion is a "paper champion".... no, that has nothing to do with it, title or not tile, that is irrelevant....... it has to do with the fact that they are what most people consider 'total mismatches'. Nothing is 100% sure but that fight (Floyd/Gatti) had all the ingredients of a mismatch right from the get go.

The fight of Margo (I am not a Margo fan) and Williams (I am not a Williams fan) was not stupid in my view because many people wanted to see it.... people were demanding that Margo had done nothing at that point and Williams.... well Williams was a challenge, because of his style, output and height, and also I read on this board that Margo was ducking Williams.... so the fight was interesting, it had build up. I don't think the fight between Margo and Williams was consider a mismatch like PBF and Gatti.

Regarding my preferences, I never said that I "prefer" a fight between Floyd and Williams, but I would like to see it though. What I did say was why I think Floyd will never fight Williams and I gave you my reasons on that.... I also said "I might be wrong" "or Floyd can prove me wrong", which means it can happen. Basically that's what I think.

Lastly, Floyd has never been the best welterweight..... defeating a champion..... a paper champion that is....the so called linear at that time doesn't prove that..... there is more to it to be called the best.... the vast majority never really considered him the best welterweight, but his fans did. Being the best P4P does not necessarily translate in being the best welterweight.

 

Still all of that doesn't prove anything, having signs of a mismatch is what Pacquiao/DLH had too, Foreman/Ali and many other fights I could mention, sometimes they are proven right and sometimes wrong that's why these fights happen anyway. In boxing you can never be sure what's a mismatch since a single punch can turn it all around so no one can say "it has signs of a mismatch why make it happen?".

I was talking about it in terms of a championship fight, Williams became Margarito's mandatory so he fought him just like Mayweather became Gatti's mandatory so they fought. Many people wanted to see Gatti/Mayweather as well hence it being on PPV and doing 375k PPV buys, Williams/Margarito wasn't even on PPV. As I said, what you prefer/enjoy doesn't necessarily make what you don't crap and worthless. Like I said in my post above in boxing anything is possible and no one can be sure if a certain fight is a mismatch, people can assume/predict and be right but there are also many cases where they are proven wrong. That's why fights eventually happen regardless of how people think the outcome may be.

Anything is possible though if Williams corners Mayweather at Welterweight like he did to Margarito and didn't get the fight you will be find me the first on the list to admit he is ducking him. Right now the image seems slightly clear of who Mayweather's next opponent may be if he beats Marquez and all indications lean towards the fight ALL want, Pacquiao, if not that then Mosley as Mayweather announced already.

Do you even know what paper champion means?

He was officially the #1 Welterweight and the best after beating Baldomir. Calling Baldomir a paper champion proves ignorance at its worst. Baldomir beats Judah who beat Spinks who beat Mayorga who beat Forrest who beat Mosley who beat DLH. You want to come and tell me that you approve of all those others but not Baldomir?, sorry but this isn't a popularity contest, it's an actual sport where different competitors regardless of hype/promotion can compete and win and Baldomir was Judah's mandatory for the WBC. At the time Margarito was the only belt holder and he was the definition of paper champion when he won a vacant WBOgus when a unified champion was around since 2001. You can say that he was a paper champion at 140 for beating Gatti since a lineal champion was available in Hatton but saying that he is at Welterweight is silly.

 

not really, compared to when he fought the likes of bruseles and gatti

 

Scar, most of the fights that have the sign of a mismatch end up being that, however, there are exceptions to the rule and that's why I said "nothing is 100% sure". The fact that you mentioned some of them doesn't mean I am wrong with my statement on the contrary is just means that sometimes they don't end up being a mismatch.

The Gatti fight shouldn't have happend, it did happen because of the money involved probably, but was a real mismatch, and most of the fans knew pretty much that it was going to be like that. It doesn't matter if it was good for PPV $$$ or whatever the fact is the fight was a total mismatch as expected.

Regarding Baldomir..... he was a paper champion...... it doesn't matter if other great boxers before him had the same title he had..... that is irrelevant....

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PBF is figthing JMM for leverage for Next fight vs PACMAn..

 

I can give you an endless list of fights considered mismatches that turned out to be competitive and I can also give you an endless list of fights that were considered competitive that ended as mismatches. In boxing this is RANDOM, that's why it's well known as unpredictable regardless of how many gurus and experts claim they have it figured out.

It shouldn't have happened?, why?, because you say so?

Back then there were MANY that wanted to watch the fight, you're just being beyond ridiculous about it claiming it shouldn't happen. It's OKAY to discredit a win by saying it's "nothing" but to come all out and say "it shouldn't have happened at all" is stupid. Who are you to claim certain fights should happen and others shouldn't?, as far as I remember Mosley/Margarito was a fight people said SHOULD happen despite yells of "mismatch" before the fight and the result looked like it SHOULDN'T considering how one-sided it turned out to be. Is your conclusion that this fight shouldn't have happened too based on the result?, I can give you similar examples ALL day. When the boxing public gives it the green light it means it's good enough to happen.

He wasn't a paper champion. If he was a paper champion then Judah, Spinks, Mayorga, Forrest, Mosley and DLH were all paper champions too. Maybe this is a popularity contest to you but to us this is a sport where any competitor has a shot at winning if they make the most out of it.

All you're doing in your posts is acting like a self proclaimed guru pointing fingers at what fights shouldn't have happened and who is a paper champion or true champion by twisting th rules completely to prove a point coming out of your pocket.

The boxing public having Mayweather as officially #1 welterweight with the the ring and lineal titles after beating Baldomir proves that your opinion means nothing about how you think of Baldomir.

Hatton beats Tszyu and he's #1 but Mayweather beats Baldomir so he's not #1 because Thinman believes that Baldomir is not popular enough so he's automatically paper champion. That's utter rubbish and stupidity.

 

old small featherweight you mean
:good

 

I personally don't mind it really. For starters, Marquez is the one who called Floyd out. Yes, Floyd could have very well instead chose to fight Mosley, Cotto, Williams, or even Pacquiao. However, it's quite obvious to myself that his acceptance of Marquez' challenge is pretty much a build up to a fight which is very relevant in defining both Mayweather's career, and his pocket book: A Fight with current #1 P4P Manny Pacquiao.

A fight with Pacquiao is a fight I think most of the fans want to see, and I think it's a fight that both fighters TRULY want to happen and win(even if Floyd says he don't care).

With that said...if Floyd doesn't finish his career(whether he loses to Pacquiao or not) by ultimately fighting the likes of Mosley, Cotto, or Williams or any other Welterweight who actually poses a legitimate contest...then I'll be disappointed...even worse than the first time he retired without fighting any of those guys.

 

I think you have some reading comprehension problems... I have never said or suggested that in order to be recognized as the real champ in a particular division THE BOXER MUST BE POPULAR..... ON THE CONTRARY, I DID SAY THAT BOXERS SHOUD PROVE IT IN THE RING. Your comments in that regard are out of context, or maybe I should say that is "UTTTER RUBBISH AND STUPIDITY"

I don't think I am "acting like a self proclaimed guru".... all what I am doing is giving you my opinion about a particular fight, the same way that other people have done it with other fights on this board. I remember for example, posters saying that the fight between Pac/Barrera II should't have happend...... that there was a waste of time, that nothing was going to change..... that Barrera was done etc etc etc.... AND I DON'T REMEMBER PEOPLE CALLING THOSE POSTERS "SELF PROCLAIMED GURUS" or did you call them like that????

Baldomir was and has been considered a paper champion by many on this and other boards and not because I say so, or because he lost to Floyd, but because there was nothing there to suggest that he was great or he is great.... there is not greatness at all, his resume doesn't indicate that, and his skills don't suggest that either....

The problem that you have is that you believe that LINEAR TITLE = BEST CHAMPION, and that it is not the case.... and no, it isn't that way because I say so, but because history and historians say so..... THERE HAVE BEEN MANY BOXERS WHO WEREN'T LINEAL AT A PARTICULAR DIVISION BUT THEY WERE CONSIDERED THE REAL MAN, THE REAL CHAMP, AND SOME OF THEM ARE ALSO CONSIDERED AS ATG. Historians consider them ATG or great boxers not me. SO THEY ARE THE GURUS (OR SHOULD I SAY THE STUPIDS???) NOT ME.

The greatness of the boxers who had been linear it is not transferred to other generations who become linear champs..... if that were the case the linear champs would always be the best in any weighclass..... are they always the best????..... of course not..... NOW GO AND ASK THE HISTORIANS WHY, AND WHILE YOU ARE THERE TELL THEM

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"TWIST THE RULES TO PROVE A POINT COMING OUT OF THEIR POCKET" and they will tell you to go and **** yourself....

Baldomir will be remembered because he fought Floyd, and not because who he is/was..... when talking about the best welterweight champions his name will never be mentioned.... on the contrary it will be on the list of the worst welterweight champs ever, and believe it or not, Margarito who you dislike, the one who was the "bogus" champion, will be ahead of him.......

 

You don't have to say it for me to see through it, you calling Baldomir a paper champion had all indications necessary for me to think that way. If Baldomir is a paper champion then what about the guys before him who had the unified titles?, according to your logic they must all be paper champions too, right?

When you beat THE man you are THE man till proven otherwise IN THE RING, not in discussions and he was THE man when he beat THE man in Judah. How complicated can this be?

Exactly, you're giving you OPINION and your opinion isn't a fact. Just like Pac/Barrera had its share of negativity almot ALL fights do if you want to look at opinions, it's impossible to find all satisfied about one thing, just doesn't work that way and it remains their opinion and nothing else, reality outshines that in the end and that should be accepted.

Also Pac/Barrera II was considered pointless because Barrera already lost to Pac years before and was coming off a loss to Marquez, totally different case than Gatti/Mayweather.

The people who considered him a paper champion are a bunch of ignorant haters who don't know the sport, it's their OPINION that considers him a paper champion. In the end facts and reality comes first and in reality REGARDING BOXING RULES AND HOW THE ENTIRE BOXING WORLD RATED HIM he was OFFICIALLY #1 as announced when he entered the ring against Mayweather. Even at the time people were asking Mayweather to fight Baldomir to prove he's a serious WW since Baldomir was the #1 fighter there, of course all that goes out the window now that the fight is over and result is finished?

Sorry but the history books won't have the names of a bunch of ESB posters and how they rated certain fighters. They WILL have Baldomir listed as lineal/WBC/#1 Welterweight though because that's what he accomplished by beating Judah, your approval and other ESB poster's means nothing, it's just your opinion and it remains that whether you want to ignore reality or not.

Speaking of his resume, let's take a look at his biggest wins and compare it with Margarito(the guy people wanted Mayweather to fight after Baldomir).

Margarito's biggest wins at the time: Clottey, Cintron, Lewis
Baldomir's: Judah, Gatti, Clottey

I'm not saying he's the best compared to others in the division, he was RATED THE BEST AND #1, THAT'S WHAT HE WAS. THAT'S ALSO WHAT PACQUIAO IS RATED AT 140 NOW, THAT'S ALSO WHAT PAVLIK IS RATED AT MIDDLEWEIGHT RIGHT NOW, THAT'S ALSO WHAT MARQUEZ WAS RATED AT LIGHTWEIGHT and so on. Does that mean these guys can destroy all others in their divisions?, definitely not, but they are rated #1 and accept challenges to KEEP that status. What I'm telling you is that they ARE rated that just like Baldomir was before Mayweather fought him. I'm not having a discussion of how Baldomir would do against the rest, I'm talking about his position in the division and YES it was OFFICIALLY #1.

That's the point of having the #1 spot, guys reach there, capture it and look to DEFEND it. Whether you lose after the first defense or second doesn't erase the fact that you reached there, it remains written down forever that you did accomplish such a position in a specific weight class.

Baldomir will be remembered because he fought and beat Judah as a 10-1 underdog. Margarito did accomplish #1 status at Welterweight when he beat Cotto, that fight was a unification, previously Margarito was rated as a titlist and nothing else. How they are both guys isn't the discussion here, I'm discussing what was going on in 2006 when Margarito's biggest win was Kermit Cintron.

 

It's a 25 million dollar tune up fight after a long layoff. Period.

 

Scar, there is no point in continuing with this debate..... You have your opinion and I have mine.... Baldomir won't be on the list of the best welterweights ever, and regardless of being Linear Champ, that won't help his case.... Other champs that have not been linear will be ahead of him.... the so called Linear Title will be just a decoration thing when talking about Baldomir, there won't really be any substance.... The historians won't place him ahead of many other boxers who have not been Linear at that classweigh and you and I know it.

 

In the end he will be remembered as a former #1 Welterweight, your OPINION doesn't change FACTS, that's all I'm trying to tell you. Please note that I'm NOT basing my opinion as a fact like you are, I'm mentioning straight out actual boxing facts, that's how things work, YOUR opinion doesn't change it.

Have fun.