No one thinks the “phantom punch” is real…right?

That's not Ali's fault. George Foreman was Liston 2.0 and Ali was the more shopworn fighter. He had been fighting twenty years as an amateur and a professional by that point. He would have had a ready made excuse if he lost but he didn't need one. Muhammad Ali would have beat any iteration of Sonny Liston and George Foreman and any slugger that ever lived. He did beat everyone he faced, even when he was baked, when he beat Earnie Shavers,

 

Frazier was a swarmer, not a slugger, and Ali won the trilogy. He also was never stopped by him. And Foreman's resume puts Liston's to shame.

 

I said he beat every slugger he ever faced. If you want I will repost the quote. And every time Ali faced Frazier he was the older and more shopworn figher.

 

" Muhammad Ali would have beat any iteration of Sonny Liston and George Foreman and any slugger that ever lived. He did beat everyone he faced, even when he was baked, when he beat Earnie Shavers."

 

Liston was never counted out, and he wasn't given an opportunity to continue because there was no count. Even so, he did get to his feet and assume an on-guard stance and was apparently ready to continue when Walcott stopped the fight. Ali not only didn't go to his corner, he started dancing around the ring like a madman, thus confusing the situation. Walcott should have had the composure to wait Ali's tantrum out for a few seconds to get his attention and then ordered him to his corner so Joe could legitimately start the count. If Ali refused, Joe should have given Ali 10 seconds (with a count) to go to the corner and if he didn't go, then disqualified him.

This is what would have happened in a perfect world, IMO. but the world isn't perfect. The fault for the confused ending lies with Walcott, Ali, and the busybody Nat Fleischer who claimed to have counted the time Liston was on the canvas even though he had no standing to interfere with the action in the ring. I think the punch landed and jolted Sonny causing a legitimate knockdown. IMO, Sonny was the least culpable participant in the debacle.

 

For those who may truly, legitimately not know, the reason I said this was a complete and total s**t show down to the National Anthem, Robert Goulet famously sang the opening line as “Oh say can you see by the dawn’s early NIGHT.”

 

We’ll let the man speak for himself.

Ali always got so much more air time than anyone else to speak - go to 55 seconds to hear Sonny give his version of events: -

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That was an ominous sign of things to come, wasn’t it?

Why didn’t Fliescher jump up and yell out to correct Goulet?

Maybe because he didn’t dislike him?

 

I think it was legit flash KD.

Very fast punch over the top of Liston’s extended left, catching Sonny moving/lunging in.

Without any other context, Liston’s lolling on the canvas and attempt to rise did look fake -

However, with due context, Ali never retreated to a neutral corner and was rounding close by again when Liston, seemingly about to arise, allowed himself to fall from the arm that was propping him up -

Good chance that Liston was well aware that Ali was about to illegally buzz his tower again....

 

I think the punch was real, it caught Liston pretty good on his way in. The problem is what happen after the fight, with Walcott losing control of the fight with Ali not heading to a neutral corner, Nat calling Walcott over saying Liston has been down for more than the ten count ete. What is forgotten is Liston DID not get a ten count during the mayhem. I think it stun Liston.

 

Yes it was.