Nobody Cares if Golovkin Claims All 4 Titles

HA, you’re telling me ?! If you researched boxing history, you’d know that historically there was no such thing as Light Middleweight (154) and Middleweight was anywhere above Welterweight up to 160. I agree that Canelo vs Cotto was for the MW Lineal Championship, but we seem to disagree on why that it was.

As we’ve seen on here, there is a disagreement amongst boxing fans as to what constitutes fighting in a specific division. Many people claimed that Canelo for example was fighting at MW when he did his non-title fights at 155 before fighting Cotto. Yet during that time he remained ranked officially as a Jr Middleweight, not as a Middleweight. I still considered him a Jr Middleweight as well, but technically, what you weigh-in at the weigh-in determines what division you are fighting in. If you cannot make 154, then you are not considered a Light Middleweight and you can’t win that title, and as a result you would be fighting in the Middleweight division since you are too heavy for Light Middleweight.

You might not realize it, but you’re view has a hole in it. If a lineal champ were drop a title, then fight in a non-title fight where no division is specified, no one would have a clue as to whether if it determined the lineal champ. In any event, however we define it, I still stand by my statement that Smith vs Canelo has MORE of a claim to the Lineal MW Champ than GG Brook. (not that it IS, just that’s it’s closer to that than GG Brook since it involves the Lineal Champ)

My reasoning is because Canelo is the Lineal MW Champ, and it’s below the MW Limit. You say it’s not because it’s in another division. I respect your definition, but I have a different one. I tend to lean toward Canelo vs Smith being for the Lineal MW Champ because historically there was no such thing as Light Middleweight, and historically anything above 147 up to 160 was Middleweight.

We can disagree on how we define Lineal Champions but this is hardly a clear cut issue. There are conflicting opinions on Lineal Champions, and what happens when a fighter drops a belt or retires, I find this to be fascinating, but certainly it’s a topic worthy of discussion given the highly unusual situation we find ourselves in at MW.

 

Canelo never went “back on his word”. In fact, he stayed true to his word.

Los cinturones aquí y se hacen a un lado. = Belts here and stand aside.

Hay que pelear por orgullo y gloria, nada mas. = We must fight for pride and glory, nothing more.

¿Hablas español?

He never refused to fight GG after one voluntary defense, quite to the contrary.

 

I'm talking about the written agreement that was in place to allow the Khan fight to happen instead of the immediate mandatory.


Then if "pride and glory" was all that matters, then why didn't the fight take place? Canelo was going to get the biggest part of the split of the purse.

 

Yea and it's a terrible fight with Brook having no chance. But what does that have to do with BJs?

 

Why are you arguing lineal again? After canelo ran, it's GGG's.

 

To become the new lineal champion you must beat the lineal champion in a match.

 

Well he might care and wants to be the first to hold all titles since Hopkins but yes he shouldn't be fighting Brook but we don't know how much money he is getting. Still disappointing move by GGG from a boxing fans perspective.

 

Ideally, but not necessarily. A new lineage may be established if a lineal champion retires undefeated or, in a bizarre case, if a lineal champion gives up his belt to avoid his mandatory and goes after smaller guys in a weight class below.

I think GGG and BJS winner will be the lineal champion at 160 and that lineage will continue until the said man loses or retires.

 

You dont understand the slav mindset.

Unifying the division carries more weight in GGG's backyard then your PPV's. Some American posters just don't get it because they think the US is the only country in the world. :deal

 

:deal

 

Even though he hasn't said it, I believe he won't consider moving up until he has broken the MW defense record.

At this point, that does more for his legacy than anything else. It punches his ticket to the HOF

 

Brook fighting Golovkin is a risk. He risks losing his undefeated record, he risks getting physically hurt, he risks his status a champ as he may struggle to get back down to 147, he risks damaging the rest of his career because a lot of fighters never look the same again after taking a beating. There is a reason not many fighters risk jumping up 2 division to fight elite power puncher's.

Yes it would also be a risk to fight his fellow welterweights but it looks like he was struggling to get them in the ring with him. Maybe after he fights Golovkin it will be easier because this Golovkin fight will raise his profile. On the other hand it might be more difficult because if he is impressive against Golovkin, the other welterweights will be even more wary of him.

 

He has already got most of the middleweight belts and been ducked by much of the division. He has proven he is the man at 160 plus the other belt holder apparently won't fight him anyway so it's time to move on. Sticking around fighting relatively weak opposition is doing his legacy more harm than good. Making him look less brave than the fighters who move up to take challenges.

 

A new lineage cannot just be established arbitrarily like you have described. The lineal champ doesn’t have to retire undefeated for a new lineage to start. He just has to retire. (being undefeated has nothing to do with it)

When a new lineage is established by the lineal champ moving into a new weight division, it’s by moving UP not DOWN. The reason is because that fighter has established himself in a division above the weight limit where he was lineal champion, and therefore cannot make that weight limit any longer.

I agree that the situation with Canelo is very unusual, but it does not fall into any of the scenarios where a new lineage is to be established. He is still very clearly the Lineal Middleweight Champion. The question is whether or not the winner of Smith vs Canelo could be considered the Lineal MW Champion.

Considering how unusual it is for the Lineal MW champ to drop the belt then fight for a title in the weight class below in his next fight, it’s not exactly a situation we encounter often. Since Dawson was still considered the Lineal LHW champ after moving down and losing to Ward, I doubt Smith would be if he won, but the difference there was that Dawson didn’t drop his LHW title, and defended it in his next fight. So I can understand why he was still considered the Lineal LHW Champ when he fought Stevenson.

Unlike Dawson, Canelo is not going to be “defending” that title again, it’s already been given to GG, so that’s why I think we need to really ask ourselves if the Smith vs Canelo winner could be the actual lineal MW champ. It’s a title fight, it’s below the MW limit and it’s at a weight that before 1962 would have been considered Middleweight.

I think there’s a strong case for why it could be considered for the Lineal MW Championship. But I’m not sure due to how uncommon this scenario is. If Smith vs Canelo isn’t for the Middleweight Title, then one has to ask the question when the next fight for the Lineal MW Title will be.

What if Canelo after fighting Smith (win or lose) decides to take a non-title fight vs David Lemieux at Middleweight? Would a Non-Title Fight at Middleweight be for the Lineal MW Title, would it Have to be vs a Titliest, or would it Have to be vs the Titlest who currently holds the Title that Canelo vacated?

This is a legitimate question, and I guarantee you plenty of people here have differing opinions on this.

 

correct
hes already the king of bumland