Nonito Donaire has looked lacklustre in recent fights, why do you think this is?

That fight was at bantamweight.

 

Like i said " AT MOST " he's a BW

It would be wise to attempt to consolidate there before looking above 122

 

Like I'm saying he didn't look all that at that weight in his last fight there so I don't know if that's the solution to his problems. And if he's 135 and can't fight people the same size I've got no interest in seeing him go back down and fight those, Montiel aside, that weigh much less than him. I don't exploiting the 24 hour weigh in rule.

 

There is plenty of talented fighters @118 , who can provide Donaire with very stern tests , it wasnt that long ago that he was a Fly W , so the bigger man picking on the smaller man Floyd Mayweather style theory doesnt apply here , he's naturally a smaller man @122 , with a disciplined lifestyle he should be a BW , its not like he's bursting out of the seems @118 is it ???

The answer to his problems is to find a suitable weight class were his reflexes and speed dont take a hit

Or , on the other hand he may just choose to accept he's now operating at a higher caliber of opponent at higher weights and accept his fights will be tougher here on in

Its pro's and con's , move up , earn more money and more recognition or stay lower and build his experience for the inevitable push to 126 + , but he's playing a risky game by not being true to his body size , which above 118 (right now) i beleive he's not

 

I don't agree that he's looked lacklustre, the hype after the Montiel victory was to much for anyone to live up to.

I think TopRank made a mistake in choosing Narvaez as his first opponent, his style is very difficult to look good against. He won every round in what was a dull fight, against someone who was happy merely to survive.

The choice of Vasquez seemed the sensible option to allow him to win a world title and it served its purpose. Again he never really seemed in any trouble through out the fight although I was a little surprised with the ease Vasquez was able to land the jab. He got the job done (with a broken hand, not an excuse), got a knockdown and fought IMO in a similar way to what he has always done.

He has always fought in a fairly cagey and unspectacular manor, even at the lower weights. He has always been a very thoughtful fighter who looks for mistakes. It has just been his highlight reel KO's and flashy skills which have caught peoples attention.

I don't think we should be so harsh on him, lets judge him when he steps up for fights with Nishioka or Rigondeaux.

 

He's cutting a lot of weight. He is NOT a natural bantamweight.

 

Apologies in advance because I'm sure that this will end up an essay. But I don't think there's anything in particular that should cause great worry for Donaire that wasn't a factor before them 2 fights anyway.

What first really made him stand out for me was the win over Sidorenko. Now I consider the Ukrainian to be a very solid, if a bit unspectacular world level fighter at 115/118 but Donaire absolutely tore him apart. I thought it would be by far Donaire's toughest fight since Vic but he was punch perfect in there and really convinced me that he would become a big star. Then, obviously after the Montiel KO too the whole boxing world what a brilliant fighter he is. But now everyone's gone a bit cold on him, similarly to the way Pacquiao received criticism post-Clottey/Margarito.

But for both of them, there was little they could respectively vs. Clottey & Narvaez. Both opponents were in a very defensive shell and there was little that either could really do apart from stacking up points and taking clear UD's. It was nothing unexpected though if you'd seen Narvaez before- I was surprised by the criticism Donaire received for not stopping him even if he was a significantly smaller man; I'd called him winning on points before the fight just because it would be very difficult to open up Narvaez.

The Vasquez Jr fight was a pretty poor performance by his recent standards, that I'll admit. But for me you're a tad harsh on Vazquez's abilities there Sports, I've always felt he was a very decent, intelligent pressure fighter who could become a top fighter in the future. Yet he should've been made to order for Donaire. As you say he got caught too much and just didn't seem to be as sharp with his punching as we're accustomed too.

But in truth I think this can be put down to having an off night. He has had a good amount of wins down at super-fly against opponents who have gone on to be proven operators at world level and often he has looked special in doing so. But even in some of these fights, he's had some off-key periods and IMO it's a problem he may have mentally about how to set up stylistically.

He struggled in periods against Mthalane and also vs. Tyson, when he was fighting southpaw to no great effect in my opinion. It seems to me that he struggles in fights, and has done for a while, where he is the one who has to force the action and take the initiative. He is clearly a phenomenal counter puncher, the best in boxing atm for me, but in his search to set up these counters he leaves a lot to be desired IMO. He switches southpaw at times, tries to open up his opponent with the jab or just literally gives his an opponent a clear target with no defence or head movement (like he was doing a lot vs. WV2) in order for them to throw punches. And when they do commit, he is lethal. He can capitalise on the smallest opening due to his incredible accuracy but as future opponents start to realise this, it becomes a problem for Donaire as they react by just coming out with more negative gameplans.

He's better in my opinion when he gets the chance to fight the top men in his division. The likes of Montiel, Vic etc. because these guys come in expecting to win and don't get overawed with Nonito's talents. And has as been seen vs them 2 opponents, he's came away with 2 fantastic stoppage wins. But it's against these more defensive minded opponents that he has to come up with a solution. His jab has a good bit of snap on it but I think it can be countered over too easily by someone willing to throw the right hand, as Vazquez Jr showed later on in their fight. And more often than not, I find his work to be pretty lethargic and sloppy when he switches to southpaw, I can't really see the big advantage he gets from doing it.

What I'd advise, not that he's going to be reading , would be to target the body more with sustained attacks. He's good when he goes downstairs but it's usually at the end of a combination and doesn't set a great deal up. But the main area I'd look to improve on if I were him is feinting. When he does it, it can work a treat. But he's not as consistent and focused on it as I feel he needs to be to make it a key attribute of his against these fighters who look to limit the openings they give to him. If he was a bit sharper on his feet and added a bit of urgency with his footwork, the feints he would create would allow him to get more of his big counters home IMO.

But saying that I'd have thought now his priority will be to target a big fight against Nishioka where I wouldn't have thought this would be a problem. He'd stop him in my view because Nishioka has brought about his success with his offensive nature and Donaire could draw enough leads from him to counter. But along the line, potential fights vs. the likes of Rigo or Gamboa would be ones where I think Nonito's struggles leading off could be highlighted. He is more talented and better than these 2 in my opinion but the 2 Cubans rely heavily on their speed to fire away combinations in counters and have both struggled when presented with opponents willing to think and not trying to force the fight on the inside- Cordoba with Rigo and Barros with Gamboa. So if Donaire was to fight either at range I'd see him winning because he makes less errors & is better at that style IMO. But that would inevitably lead to a lot off stand offs and I reckon borefests if truth to be told which isn't what Nonito is about. I could see him looking to force the fight vs. either man which would make it vital for him to sharpen up and be mentally disciplined enough to not be caught by their speed.

That post is way too long, apologies for the waffle :yep. Awaiting the 'Too long, didn't read GIFs'

 

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:hey

 

I think you'll find that I'm the waffle-master 'round these here parts.

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And just to go back to Vasquez Jr too, I thought he fought a very good, gutsy fight. He was controlled in there and I was very impressed with his efforts. I expected him to be stopped in all truth so for him to be as competitive was pleasantly surprising.

But really, I still consider it poor matchmaking. I've always like WV2 and thought his wins over Sonsona & Bedak, though not exactly elite level competition, were signs of a very promising fighter. Even in the defeat to Arce there were some positives IMO, he just seemed to get old manned out of it which isn't a great shock considering his lack of experience in the amateurs before his pro career.

But putting him in with someone he had little to no chance of beating so soon after it is reckless and unfair IMO. I still felt despite the Arce loss, he could come back with some refinements and eventually work his way to the top of the Super Bantamweight division. And I suppose that is still entirely possible after the good showing he pout up but if Donaire had performed to the peak of his powers and got a brutal KO, as I and many others expected him to, what would that have done to Vasquez?

Anyways as i said, I was happy with his performance and had it 116-112 on my card but still I feel a bit sorry for the lad that people will see 2 defeats in 3 on his record and might not appreciate the talent he has. Hopefully, anyway he'll come back strong and I'm looking forward to his next career move

 

Both good efforts :yep

 

thankyou mate!

Yeah as you say they both caused him some struggles but then you look at his record and he has 2 knockout wins! I think that shows the talent he's got as these 2 guys are clearly world level fighters, as well as Narvaez and Vasquez Jr in truth, and whilst he may have struggled, he still got reasonably comfortable wins over all of them. That's an indication of his p4p quality for me.

I don't think there really is anything to major for him to worry about because in truth, it's very hard for anyone around the lower weights to be able to carry out a gameplan good enough to beat him. Gamboa & Rigo have the speed to match his but aren't as well rounded fighters as Nonito IMO and so whilst, they would have a chance I think it would mainly be Donaire beating himselves by trying to look too good. As I said before, if he was mentally in the right place vs. them, he'd pick them off quite consistently I reckon.

What do you think?

 

I know, having read through all the posts in this thread, I see most of the points I've made someone also has already pretty much came up with, and without as much waffling !!

But yeah concentration is an issue without doubt. It made me laugh when either Lampley or Merchant, I forget which one, said at the start of the Vazquez fight that his concentration impressed them greatly!