Norton beat Ali 3 times!

Frazier was the constant aggressor and landed the more effective blows..The Shavers fights was a straight up robbery. Shavers gave Ali a beating.

 

Well, we can all agree on only one thing where Ali-Norton bouts are concerned, they will never be agreed on. At one time I couldn't "get" why some thought Ken took the second or the 15th round of the third, but they look at things I'm not. In the end I believe Arthur Mercante's method of scoring clears up who won that 15th round, any other method has to ignore the first 4-5ths of the round.

 

Have you ever scored the bout round for round? Earnie thought he won as is the case in many bouts lost, but has never made a serious argument. He knows he blew it in the second round. As with Norton-Ali3 the decision was unanimous for a reason.

 

In your opinion. Many boxing fans scoring Norton 2 had Ali up by several rounds as did the judges, and many like the judges had Norton 3 come down to the last round which Ali didn't so much win by what he did as by what Ken didn't do for the first 4-5ths of the round, nothing. He threw one jab in the first minute which missed, two jabs in the second minute landing one, and until the last thrity second onslaught of the third minute again threw and landed one jab. Ali's thrown and landed jabs for those 4-5ths of the round were game, set, match. Ken had no one to blame but himself.

 

Hey Stevie, appreciate the sarcasm! I find Muhammad to be the greatest all-time while still seeing his second reign as a lot of 'smoke & mirrors' here and there. Actually, the London 'joke of a fight' should have been right in the middle of the 2nd Ali's jokes against Evangilista, Lubbers, Dunn, etc, fights that Ali should have given his purse to the poor rather than put us thru that 'troweled out' nonsense.

 

Norton won the first and third fight easily, they were not close at all, the second fight is the only one that's debatable. I have not watched the second fight in a long time, back when I saw it I thought it was a draw, possibly Ali won by one point. No true boxing fan scored the third fight for Ali, he lost by a wide margin.

 

I believe one of the most respected ref's in history, Arthur Mercante, was a true boxing fan and Harold Lederman also. Both (and the judge Smith), as did I and many other true boxing fans, had the bout come down to the 15th round which Ken gave away by landing one jab in the first two minutes and a total of two up to the last thirty seconds, he gave the round and fight away. The Associated press disagreed with you also having the bout 8-6-1 Ali while UPI had it by round 8-7 for Norton, and the London Daily Mirror 6-6-3, all razor close in a very close fight won by Ali. (Unofficial punch counts done by various observers is 281 landed by Ali and 199 Norton for the bout).

 

As far as the 2nd fight goes, I had it a draw. Too close to pick a clear winner. But I'll go to my grave believing that Norton won the 3rd fight. Even if it came down to the last round, Norton pummeled Ali from pillar to post for the last minute or so. The jabs Ali landed at the beginning of the round really weren't that impressive and the look on Ali's face as the decision was being announced pretty much said it all. He knew he lost that fight but the powers that be weren't ready yet to give up thier cash cow to another less entertaining/audience attracting fighter like Norton. I was a big Ali fan at the time but was disappointed in the decision. Ali the legend won that fight, not Ali the fighter.

 

Jim, if you have time review the last round with Mercante's method of scoring he taught judges and ref's. Each round is broken into three parts and scored as such. You will find Ken didn't throw or land a punch in the first minute and Ali landed four jabs. In the second minute/segment Ken threw two jabs and landed one, Ali landed six jabs. In the third minute Ken didn't start his ending salvo until there was about 40 seconds left and Ali landed during those seconds also. Ken ended well but didn't overly hurt Ali and clearly was outscored the first two and a half minutes of the round. Ken handed the round and decision to Ali.

 

That's not true at all .. it is the only one that was a razor thin decision except that Norton clearly dominated almost the entire second half of the fight. The first is obvious and the third was robbery.

George Foreman said it best when he said he did not know if Ali ever beat Ken Norton.

 

Little doubt about the genius part in particular :good

 

The Evangelista bout was depressing !! It illustrated how much Ali had slipped in the three years since winning the title back. The Muhammad of 1974/75 would have stopped Alfredo within five rounds.

 

Manila was Ali's last great fight .. he was absolutely never the same again .. he looked like crap against Young, lost to Norton , took unbelievable punishment against Shavers and kept dropping ... that being said t shows how amazing he was that as a shell he still fought on close terms with all of those guys at their own best ..

 

Some revisionism concerning history is warranted, and that includes dispelling errors and myths in boxing history, among other things. The Ali myth is one example. Several of his wins were questionable, to put it mildly. The money powers that be wanted him to win and the brainwashed fans were prejudiced in his favor.

 

shavers lost to ali even shavers admits it/ frazier 2 come on dude ali won easily ....troll much:-(