Norton, not just a paper champ.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by lufcrazy, Aug 7, 2011.


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  1. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Not sure about him being considered the best heavy in 1976. There was a bit of a triangle between Ken,Ali and George Foreman. Yes,Norton would have been favoured to have won a fourth fight with Muhammad,but Foreman would have been favoured to have won a rematch with Ken. There again,even a past his seventies prime Ali would have beaten Foreman,imo. After Foreman got beaten by Jimmy Young in '77 and retired,then,yes,I consider Ken to have been the best in the world,for a short time.
     
    Stevie G, Aug 9, 2011
    Stevie G, Aug 9, 2011
    #46
  2. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    i think what it is is that i haven't seen much of his fghts as a past prime contender and i haven't researched enough of his fights as a champion.

    an honest viewpoint of mine (completely naive because I haven't looked into him enough) is that he was punching above his weight with limited success and his best victory is archie moore. when he fought better heavyweights (liston, ali) he got slaughtered. I have heard he suffered some robbories late on and maybe one day I'll look more into him but atm I'm watching norton and marquez fights.
     
    lufcrazy, Aug 9, 2011
    lufcrazy, Aug 9, 2011
    #47
  3. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    yeah interesting triangle theory but you have to go off the most recent events and he did deserve the victory over ali in the rubber (i assume you agree with this?) hence he rose to the top of the tree. if foreman wants to challenge that position he then fights norton again (agree he would have wiped the floor with him), but he didn't.

    in a way like how today some people say vitali would beat wlad, well since wlad is top dog, vitali has to fight him and beat him today to prove he's infact top dog. so even though ali-foreman-norton likely is a triangle, all we know is that in 76 norton deserved to have beaten ali and foreman never fought norton again.
     
    lufcrazy, Aug 9, 2011
    lufcrazy, Aug 9, 2011
    #48
  4. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It is called hall of fame , not hall of greatness. Most popular fighters.

    Head to head comparison plays important role when ranking fighters. Norton proved himself too fragile many times when he faced rough strong sluggers.
     
    Senya13, Aug 9, 2011
    Senya13, Aug 9, 2011
    #49
  5. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Well, yeah that is naive. He has more depth in his resume than those guys you mentioned, better longevity at the top than all of them and better achievements. Yes, he is not in the class of Ali but who is? Louis. That´s it. Liston was his stylistic foil and much bigger, no shame there, actually getting in the ring a second time after such a blowout should count for him. Sorry, but shose guys you mentioned are not in Patterson´s class - I´m not talking h2h but proper ranking.

    Please watch more of him and look deeper into his career and live. It´s worth it and he´s fun to watch.
     
    bodhi, Aug 9, 2011
    bodhi, Aug 9, 2011
    #50
  6. red cobra

    red cobra Loyal Member Full Member

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    It's really bizarre how the Norton-Young contest was scheduled for 15 rounds..the championship distance...but was only recognized as a title contest and Norton as the champion well after the fact. This is unprecedented isn't it?
     
    red cobra, Aug 9, 2011
    red cobra, Aug 9, 2011
    #51
  7. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Well my top 20 is

    Louis
    Ali
    Rocky
    Johnson
    Holmes
    Foreman
    Lewis
    Dempsey
    Liston
    HOLYFIELD
    Tyson
    Frazier
    WLAD
    Sullivan
    Jeffries
    Langford
    Charles
    Walcott
    Tunney
    Wills

    Who there would you put patterson above? Every hof fighter is great by definition in my opinion but when we talk elite heavyweights that's where I draw the line. Missing the cut would be the likes of (no particular order) jeanette, mcvey, corbett, schmelling, baer, bowe, norton, vitali, patterson, sharkey, fitz, sharkey, hart, carnera, moore
     
    lufcrazy, Aug 9, 2011
    lufcrazy, Aug 9, 2011
    #52
  8. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    By the same token Foreman would have beat him anytime up until his retirement during 77. Even post ali he would have cleaned Kenny up.

    Good fighter tho and did a lot of top work.
     
    JohnThomas1, Aug 9, 2011
    JohnThomas1, Aug 9, 2011
    #53
  9. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I won´t make it a list discussion. But there are more than 5 names he deserves to rank above on your list. I´ve got him higher than 9 men on your list. Schmeling higher than 7 btw. Otherwise the same names, bit different order. Tunney and Walcott not in the Top20.
     
    bodhi, Aug 9, 2011
    bodhi, Aug 9, 2011
    #54
  10. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    If they were never ranked, then he was never under any obligation to fight them. Also, if they realy could have beaten Norton, then they ought to have found a way to breach the rankings at some point. Furthermore, I don't tend to asses a fighters legacy based on what I think some unranked fighter might have done to them.
     
    janitor, Aug 9, 2011
    janitor, Aug 9, 2011
    #55
  11. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Dozens is ridiculous. Huge chance there were NONE. Guys like Shavers and Foreman were anything but primitive (in the way insinuated) and unranked. Big hitters in the unranked lesser skilled category would have to worry about what Norton would do to them. Quarry was a hard hitter and well proven and Norton ended up prevailing.

    It's just not that simple beating Norton. Decent to top class big hitting thrashers like Tyson, Liston, Foreman, Lewis, Shavers and co will beat him pretty much every day of the week but mug class sluggers - nuh.
     
    JohnThomas1, Aug 9, 2011
    JohnThomas1, Aug 9, 2011
    #56
  12. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    fair enough. once i rewatch some of his past prime efforts i'll re-evaluate him. my ranking of walcott has been pretty consistent for a while now so i don't see that changing.

    but to drag us slightly more on track, how do you view patterson in relation to norton?
     
    lufcrazy, Aug 9, 2011
    lufcrazy, Aug 9, 2011
    #57
  13. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    very much agree. i think both shavers and foreman scored legitimate knockouts over a prime norton, but noone else did. so to assume he'd lose to eveyr puncher and downgrade him is silly imo.

    now if you don't particularly rate the verison of ali he beat, if you don't rate the version of quarry he beat, if you think he lost to young, they're all reasons to downgrade him. not on some supposed stylistic flaw.
     
    lufcrazy, Aug 9, 2011
    lufcrazy, Aug 9, 2011
    #58
  14. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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    Fixed. Exhaustively. I still tried to keep the structure of your wording correct. You're welcome.
     
    Boxed Ears, Aug 9, 2011
    Boxed Ears, Aug 9, 2011
    #59
  15. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yes,I agree that Norton merited the win in the third fight. You've made some good points.
     
    Stevie G, Aug 9, 2011
    Stevie G, Aug 9, 2011
    #60
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