Norton or Frazier ?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Stevie G, Jul 27, 2009.


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  1. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Inevitably Joe Frazier's name is mentioned when asked whom Muhammad Ali's toughest opponent was. I go along with this in a purely physically punishing sense,yet it could be put forward that Ken Norton posed more of an enigma. Ali's two victories out of the three fights he had with Smokin'Joe were hard to come by but they were obvious and conclusive. With Norton he scraped a victory in their second,even though I believe Ali was certainly the winner in that one. Even a loyal Ali fan,as I am admit that he was lucky to be judged the winner in the Yankee Stadium rubber match. Both men both deserve to be named as Ali's toughest opponents,just in different aspects.
     
    Stevie G, Jul 27, 2009
    Stevie G, Jul 27, 2009
    #1
  2. teeto

    teeto Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Frazier.
     
    teeto, Jul 27, 2009
    teeto, Jul 27, 2009
    #2
  3. Mr Butt

    Mr Butt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    frazier
     
    Mr Butt, Jul 27, 2009
    Mr Butt, Jul 27, 2009
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  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    It amazes me that Norton gets little credit for beating Ali. The fans know Norton defeated Ali twice, but few remember that Norton beat Ali before Ali went on to win his legacy matches with Foreman and Frazier.

    Norton vs Frazier would have been a heck of a match. I like Frazier in the early 1970's, and Norton in the mid 1970's. Its a pity the two never fought. The winner would have upped his legacy.
     
    Mendoza, Jul 27, 2009
    Mendoza, Jul 27, 2009
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  5. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Apparently, Frazier used to get the better of Norton in most of their sparring sessions, but those kinds of stories tend to get out of hand, and sparring doesn't prove everything anyway. That said, I'd still pick Frazier. Norton didn't do well with punchers who pressured him, and I think Joe's rapid upper body movement would complicate things even further.
     
    mr. magoo, Jul 27, 2009
    mr. magoo, Jul 27, 2009
    #5
  6. yancey

    yancey Active Member Full Member

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    deleted
     
    yancey, Jul 27, 2009
    yancey, Jul 27, 2009
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  7. Bill Butcher

    Bill Butcher Erik`El Terrible`Morales Full Member

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    I agree.

    I think Frazier would beat Norton at their bests, it could very well be a tight decision tho.
     
    Bill Butcher, Jul 27, 2009
    Bill Butcher, Jul 27, 2009
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  8. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    :roll: :lol:
     
    PetethePrince, Jul 27, 2009
    PetethePrince, Jul 27, 2009
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  9. PbP Bacon

    PbP Bacon ALL TIME FAT Full Member

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    Hard to say...

    From a "raw" or physical point of view Frazier is the most dangerous hands down. His stamina and willpower, combined with his toughness would give Ali a hell of a time every time

    However, "stylistic-wise" or "smart-wise" I go for Norton. He read Ali like a book and knew how to counter his gameplan and frustrate him. How many fighters can say that? Norton was a clever, skilled fighter who could also hit (remember the broken jab) and also gave Ali a heck of a time.

    I think this discussion is kind of moot. Both were extremely dangerous for Ali and both were Ali's nemesis in totally different dimensions.

    LOL. The fascinating thing would be ponder what would Ali had done with a combination of both :D

    Imagine a boxer with Frazier's body and Norton's brain or viceversa. Kenny with the stamina and toughness of Joe; or Smoking Joe with the coolness and smarts of Kenny.

    That would have been Ali's ultimate challenge
     
    PbP Bacon, Jul 27, 2009
    PbP Bacon, Jul 27, 2009
    #9
  10. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I'm not denying that Frazier would convincingly beat Norton prime for prime,but my thread is about whom Ali found the toughest to deal with. Certain styles clash. Norton and Frazier would always push Muhammad to the limit,wheras George Foreman would always knock them both out easily. Ali would permanently befuddle Foreman. So on and so on. As for the second Ali-Frazier fight,this is the beauty of debate. We all sometimes see boxing in different ways. IMO the second fight was the most one sided of the trilogy. Yes Ali clinched a lot,but it was up to Frazier to deal with that. Tony Perez also,albeit by accident did Smokin'Joe a big favour in the second round. I'm not saying Ali would've definitelyknocked Frazier out,but you can't help but wonder. You can't not respect Red Smith,but Ali was never his favourite.
     
    Stevie G, Jul 27, 2009
    Stevie G, Jul 27, 2009
    #10
  11. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    Norton posed stylistic problems for Ali while Frazier pushed Ali to his limits in every aspect.
     
    robert ungurean, Jul 27, 2009
    robert ungurean, Jul 27, 2009
    #11
  12. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    Are you actually Steven Gerrard? Because your clear love for Boing would explain your, ahem, 'moves' that have been all over the papers recently :deal :rofl you might not even be British and that reference might've gone right over your head, Teeto will know :rofl
     
    Flea Man, Jul 27, 2009
    Flea Man, Jul 27, 2009
    #12
  13. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    No I am not Steven Gerrard ! I am British though mate,but a Londoner,not a scouser.
     
    Stevie G, Jul 28, 2009
    Stevie G, Jul 28, 2009
    #13
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Frazier was tougher for him, but let's not forget that Ali basically broke Frazier in his losing effort in their first fight. Ali could a long series with Frazier, and although I think he would lose the first one, I think he would always be made favourite to dominate Joe thereafter. It's just the way those two worked!

    On the other hand, if Ali fought Norton 12 times they would mostly be horrifically close.
     
    McGrain, Jul 28, 2009
    McGrain, Jul 28, 2009
    #14
  15. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    For me the Frazier fights were far more punishing for Ali, but Norton came closer to getting the better of Ali.
     
    fists of fury, Jul 28, 2009
    fists of fury, Jul 28, 2009
    #15
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