Note from Mike Tyson on most powerful puncher of all time

Every guy that beats a big puncher that can mostly only KO bums like Shavers says that said fighter is the biggest puncher. It's always the same. They don't want to give credit to actual great fighters that punched them harder or even KO'd them. I do agree that this person is taking Mike's opinion as gospel a little too much.

 

Ok,there is some credence in most of your observations however there are points that
I disagree with.

All the opponents that fought both Liston and Foreman state that Sonny was the harder puncher.

Sonny Liston,by consensus of opinion,had possibly the greatest left-jab in heavyweight-history.Observers marvelled at the way Liston could change his left-jab into a devasting left-hook.
It is fair to say that Liston had the better left-hand.

Sonny Liston is also regarded as one of the greatest boxer-punchers in heavyweight-history,with only Joe Louis being his superior in that category.
Liston was more versatile than Foreman.

 

Well,Muhammad Ali had a tendency to change his mind on such matters.However,immediately
after the Foreman fight he did say that Liston punched harder than Foreman.
Granted Foreman had more speed than Sonny but that's not the issue I'm disputing.

 

Maybe someone else had already mentioned it but I’m too lazy to through the 10 previous pages of this thread so my question is did Tyson say who was the most powerful puncher that he faced?

 

Pre exile Ali used movement & reflexes, to be elusive & not get hit much.

Post exile Ali was less mobile, with slower reflexes and took more punishment, moreso the closer he got to the end of his career.

 

Could be, could be.

 

He didn't have the same issues across multiple fights. That's the thing. He won all but two rounds against Machen and won 19 of 20 rounds against Whitehurst.

He was an old man against Martin, likely in his 40s, and still decked him and was winning handily until he gassed and was subsequently knocked out.

Are you going to tell me, at that stage in his career only a mover could've defeated Liston?

So all we're left with is a loss to Ali, the GOAT, and an SD loss to Marty Marshall where he knocked him down, and avenged the loss twice in dominating fashion.

This is literally the same article you mocked Chok for using.

It's laughably wrong and has already been dismissed off this forum.

For example, the author says the following "For the next five rounds he warily tried to prevent Whitehurst from getting inside. He succeeded well enough with this new task to win a close decision." ....Liston won 19 of the 20 rounds they fought. Close my ass.

Also in this article Whitehurst disputes movement gave Liston trouble. On the contrary he says he felt safest on the inside "Whitehurst was hit hard when he stepped back, but soon learned to move to safety inside Liston's massive arms."
""In our second fight [St. Louis, Oct. 24, 1958] my manager, George Gainford, told me to stay outside," Whitehurst recalls. "For six rounds I took a good beating. The crowd yelled, 'Run, Whitehurst, run,' and I ran and I ran until I ran out of gas. Exhausted, I moved inside. It was like being in the eye of a hurricane. On the outside it was hell, but in close it was calm and I was safe."

I brought up his age to illustrate he was already old at that point in his career.

I never said it was Marshall's fault Liston was allegedly laughing and got caught with his jaw broken. But how does that translate to Liston being troubled by boxers?

So Liston's only an 8 fight novice against Martin, has a shoulder injury against Ali, or is a 40 something year old drug addict when it's convenient to you?

Got it.

Fair.

I agree. They didn't do their research. Ingo was virtually unknown and wasn't seen as a threat. Even after knocking out Machen, he still wasn't regarded as a threat to Patterson who took him lightly.

If he won all but two rounds, I'd say something was working very well.

Ellis was at the tail end of his career and had already been brutally knocked out by Shavers a year prior.

Mathis was at the VERY end of his career. This was literally his last fight.

Whitehurst was far more elite than Mathis and Ellis at the time of their respective bouts against Liston and Lyle.

How did Lyle's fights with Young turn out by the way? Did he ever win more than a single round in two fights?

Not sure what Norton's relevance is here.

I agree, and have said as much multiple times

which is why I specifically made a point to separate the two versions of Foreman in my post. "He was a damn sight better against boxers than guys who could cut the ring off like Lyle, and '77 Foreman. I'll concede '73-'74 Foreman likely would've gotten Machen out of there."

 

Why would you believe or suspect either of those things?
I never claimed to be a boxing expert.
Making a detailed argument about specific matters & beliefs does not even imply I am, or suggsted I am, an "expert".

Also why would you even wonder if I was not "honest"?
Because I said Liston was a better boxer?
Again, do you somehow not know that this is the COMMON opinion, including of boxing experts?

More importantly for you & general Peace & Decency, why blow up your relationship with me & others by leaving a string of mocking laughter?

SINCE you lashed out inappropriately, & you have not been here long or have that many posts, I gotta ask if you are an "alt".
If similar gratuitous attempted cruelty got you banned before, & you USED to have another username here?

I am glad I gave an uncharacteristically brief case, since it seems whatever I said that differed from your opinion would not be objectively considered, but greeted with gratuitous derision.

You also could salvage things by apologizing for such juvenile behavior.

 

He said Razor hit like a #$&%ing mule.
I think he might name Bruno too.
My guess is either one of them likely hit slightly harder than the clearly better fighter-Lewis.

 

This is quite possible, but as we both remember Lewis (when he set himself right) was pretty devastating.