Now Ali,Holmes and Frazier give Marciano Props

George Foreman: "Lennox Lewis is the greatest Heavyweight of all time". Just because Foreman was a world champion, doesn't make that statement any less absurd than it sounds. A lot of posters here in the Classic know more about Boxing than 99% of Boxing analysts. Plus, Frazier might have an agenda and doesn't want to concede that Ali, a man he hates by his own admission, was in fact the Greatest of all time. Only Louis and Ali have a case for top spot, everyone else need not apply.

 

Larry Holmes: "Tyson would have been blasted out by Lyle"
Vitali Klitschko: "Lennox Lewis is the biggest name in the history of Boxing"

 

since this is a marciano threadand i wrote a letter about marciano today i migth aswell p[ost it

it was in response to a letter published in (Britainss) Boxing News

In response to Mr Taylor’s letter about Rocky Marciano.

Rocky Marciano is definitely a great fighter, perhaps not the best Heavyweight champion but he was a great champion in the class of Lennox Lewis, Larry Holmes and Mike Tyson.
Marciano’s reign as champion coincided with the end of the great era of the late 40’s and early 50’f of Louis, Walcott and Charles. After every great era there is always a vacuum created and normally the class of the fighters left to fill it aren’t always as good as the guys who left it.
Your analysis of Marciano’s opponents is fairly harsh. Firstly, Louis although not being the force he was, was still a top contender of the day. Marciano’s being fairly Green KO’d him. This was a top 10 contender so a fairly good win.

Jersey Joe Walcott was the Heavyweight Champion of the World. Yes, he was 38 but he was also a very skilled boxer who came in to his own later on in his career. He was just past his prime and still a formidable fight for anyone. He had KO’d Charles with the best left uppercut I have ever seen to win the title and everything about Walcott oozed class, skill and grace. He gave Marciano hell for 13 rounds until Marciano finally wore him down and caught him with a brutal right hook to KO him and take the title. Then he KO’d Walcott in a return within a round. However, there is some debate over how relevant the 2nd Walcott win.
This was a very good win for the Rock; it brought him the World Title and a big win on his record. I think you are being harsh on Walcott here despite being 38 years old he was still a top class fighter.

Ezzard Charles was the legendary Light Heavyweight Champion. Stylish and quick with some great fighting skills. He had moved up to Heavyweight after dominating the Light Heavys for years and eventually took the title Louis had vacated by beating Walcott. Charles was an unpopular champion as he came after the great Joe Louis, and the competition available at the time was not the best and it did not add to his appeal. The biggest threat was Walcott and they fought 4 times with the score level at 2 all. Walcott eventually won the title from Charles in the 3rd meeting between them. Charles challenged Rocky for the title in 1954 many believing him to be past it despite him still being a top class Heavyweight – perhaps not the force he once was but still a top class Heavy. However, Charles put on one of his best displays in going the distance with Rocky but losing on points in an epic. He then fought a rematch and nearly tore Rocky’s nose off but was then KO’d in 8, maybe the 1st fight had put some wear and tear on him. Again Charles was one of the best fighters around in the day so another solid win for Rocky.

Archie Moore was the Light Heavyweight Champion of the world at the time of challenging Marciano. Yes he was on the decline but he was still one of the best in the world at that point. Archie was a cagey crafty veteran with a KO punch and despite being in his 40s he was still a great fighter. He gave Marciano some trouble early on with a knockdown but Marciano came back and gave Moore a beating for the remaining rounds before stopping him in the 9th. This is another good win for Rocky.

You also mention you think Marciano would have trouble with the bigger guys. Marciano was a small rugged brawler with loads of heart and determination. Basically he is hell for anyone. His bobbing and weaving crouching style made him even smaller than his 5ft 10 frame showed, which against a boxer is a good thing as the target are is smaller for them to hit and you can come under there punches. I think Rocky would be beaten by the men you list but he gives them a hell of a fight and really pushes them. Rock was no push over as you seem to make out. He maybe is beaten by the truly great Champions like Ali, Holmes etc… but he is better than that 2nd group like Holyfield, Bowe etc…

Marciano was the best of his time and that is all he can be. In my opinion he is in-between the truly great champions and the 2nd class ones. I don’t do ranking lists or anything but if I did he would be lower top 10 – early teens.

 

Great post. I have no issues with anyone championing Rocky Marciano as a great fighter, he certainly was. He fought everyone that was available for him to fight, and he beat every single one of them. Walcott was outclassing him, but the true showing of a champion is overcoming adversity and Marciano did that in abundance. A beautiful shot to end things.

However, the thread starter seems to be implying that the opinions of Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier holds more weight simply because they were champions themselves. I don't see it that way, like I said before, a few posters in the Classic forum can claim to know more about the history of Boxing then 90% of Boxing analysts. Fighters are quite notorious for coming out with outlandish comments, and although I don't think this is one of those occasions, just type in "George Foreman quotes" in google search if you want to hear some comedy gold.

Marciano could have been a hard fight for both Frazier and Ali, but the opinions of Ali and Frazier don't change my stance. I feel Marciano was one of the least impressive fighters out of the consensus top 10 Heavyweights, and Ali in particular would have had a field day with the slow, plodding, come forward Marciano that went 49-0 in a relatively weak era.

 

We also have to consider that all of those men ( Ali, Holmes, etc.. ), have experienced the CONSEQUENCES of speaking ill of past greats. Ali was criticized for his belittling of Joe Louis, while Holmes to this day, still gets **** for one distasteful comment that made about Marciano 25 years ago..

While I would certainly like to think that their respect towards the Rock and other greats is genuine, we also have to take it with a political grain of salt...

 

He was a great heavyweight, but I've never been really convinced he could beat the best heavyweights of the last 20 years with great size.

 

It's a bit of a personal victory for me that both Ali and Holmes have said this because if you go through my posts on Marciano you'll see i've always called him a 'head to head monster'. Haha.

 

:verysad The word of Holmes and Marciano shouldn't be considered gospel. They are just plain wrong in my judgment.

 

Nar it's gospel.

Ssshhh!

Only kidding, my post was just one for fun. Though i always have said he would be my strongest bet against Ali, who i consider the best heavyweight, in terms of effectiveness. The only thing that puts me off is the size factor. I think Marciano maybe would come unstuck against Holmes though, who was more of a complete fighter stlylistically, he would be able to meet Rocky and we all know he could box. I'd be picking Ali against Holmes though.

Just my opinion.

 

Foreman doesn't even have Lennox in his top 10.

 

You're so wrong. If Cooney can trouble Holmes than Rocky damn well could.

 

That isn't what the papers were saying after Lennox Lewis knocked out Mike Tyson. In fact, refer to the HBO commentary of the fight. You might be surprised. I can see your a Rocky fan so I won't put to much effort in arguing with you, but we should all take the comments with a grain of salt.

 

I know he said it, but maybe it was just Foreman over-blowing the situation or relating it nice publicly on the air. However, Lennox isn't even a top 10 HW according to Foreman. You can find a youtube clip after the fight where he states the same thing, yet George hasn't kept his word on that opinion.

And really, we can't take everyone's opinion with a grain of salt. Look at the context. Foreman says 1000 things, and Larry is usually one of the truest and honest guys in the sport. Your comparison between the two opinions automatically being equal is idiotic, frankly.