Now Ali,Holmes and Frazier give Marciano Props

:verysad Holmes beat the living **** out of Cooney.

 

You want to hear how credible Larry Holmes comments are? Refer to the other thread on this page where he trashes the 90s Heavyweights. He says something along the lines of, "Lyle would knockout Mike Tyson". As I said earlier, Holmes and Ali aren't automatically correct - they've both been guilty of saying silly **** in the past.

 

Did you watch the fight? Cooney was at one point jabbing with Holmes. Two of the scorecards had it a 2 point fight. Let's not get into hyperbole.

 

Sure.

Sonny Liston nearly ended up having to fight Marciano in a four rounder after he implied that he could beat him.

Muhamad Ali ended up with some bruised ribs.

Both of these guys found him to be a verry considerable presence even in his 40s, and Larry Holmes probably would have done as well if Marciano had been 40 when he was champion.

I wonder if he would have made the jockstrap comment.

 

You're confusing Holmes bitter bias short-sided comments as being illegitimate, as if that makes what the rest of Holmes said as automatically being non-credible and untruthful. Holmes speaks from the heart, what you're saying is proving my point. He goes overboard with his bias sometimes but in this case he uses analysis to examine why he thinks Marciano would be his toughest fight. The guy has previously said he would over-power Marciano but now has turned a leaf. What would his motive be? Clean up his image on the subject or something? Get real. When he says that Lyle and Tyson **** he's just talking and doesn't provide any sound reasoning. You can't take all comments being equal. You have to look at the context or angles, otherwise you'll be blinded with looking at with Holmes, Ali, and Foreman all have to say is being bull****. And that my friend is a stupid way to look at things.

 

Foreman's word is probably the least credible of all of the former greats, he changes what he says to please people. One day Ali is the greatest, the next Lennox is. He's great at making people like him, but that doesn't mean he even believes what he is saying.

 

Damn. Two Marciano fans against me? Not having that lads, believe what you like. Marciano was the best of all times. :good

 

Nobody here has stated Marciano was the best. We are just saying that some fighters are more honest and open about their true feelings than others.

 

I think Ali, Holmes and Frazier are being honest with themselves when they say that Marciano would have been the toughest test. That doesn't necessarily make them right, that's my point. This isn't all of a sudden some sort of revelation, 'Wow guys, Marciano WOULD be the toughest after all". It's just their opinions, all of which will forever remain speculation. I respectfully disagree with all three men. :good

 

I have to bow to your point here.

Using Holmes as a refference would be a bit hit and miss.

 

Things are a bit different under exhibition circumstances. On one end, you have an aging ex-champ who wants to prove that he's not an old man, while on the other, you have a young champ who doesn't want to hurt the old guy.
You also have the factor of the young man giving the older his dues when asked by the media " how did he do? "

Figure it out...

 

So what are you arguing about? You're comparing on an honest and sound assessment to a bias critical shortsided comment by Holmes on Lyle and Tyson to complete discredit him. You don't think that's wrong? You're not going to prove any point by doing that. And no, you actually said we should hold their (legends) opinions with a grain of salt. If anything, I'll take their word of who would trouble them the most over you and probably most posters here. They have an understanding of their style and the weaknesses they possess and what attributes it may take to trouble them. So, of course, their insight is in fact firsthand and something to respect. :good

 

"If you want to get technical about the whole thing...Rocky couldn't carry my jock strap.." - Larry Holmes

 

Now why dont you post all the criticisms Ali and Holmes made of Marciano :thumbsup

 

I'm saying, I respectfully disagree with all three men in their assessments. I feel Marciano was a great champion in his time, but loses to all of the great Heavyweights that followed his reign. Ali and Frazier may believe what they are saying, but I think they are wrong. :good